Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive147
Shalom11111
[edit]| Shalom11111 is blocked for 24 h by Heimstern Läufer. Sandstein 18:36, 23 February 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Shalom11111[edit]
The editor is also engaging in tendentious editing at Talk:Israel and the apartheid analogy, and was the subject of an ANI thread last week - Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive828#Shalom11111 must stop with his bad behaviour. Discussion concerning Shalom11111[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Shalom11111[edit]There are so many wrong things here. EdJohnston, I'm afraid you may be confused because this wasn't a warning - you just told me to write my thread in a different place. You said: "Hello Shalom11111. Your complaint at WP:ANI seems to fall in the domain of WP:Requests for arbitration/Palestine-Israel articles. To be sure that you have the full story about that arbitration case, I'm leaving you the WP:ARBPIA notice." How can that possibly be considered a warning? Now, Sepsis says that here I broke the 1RR - which is not true - I did not revert him there, I added new information. And the same thing goes for this edit, it was not a revert as I only added part of the information back. Please check the history page to see for for yourselves . On the Naftali Bennett page, again, I did not break the 1RR here like Sepsis claims - I only added new information! I even said it in the edit summary: "adding info. you can't just tell a part of the story. it's called pov-pushing". Please see the page's history for yourselves . Lastly, how is politician Naftali Bennett part of Wikipedia:ARBPIA? And how is Palestinian terrorism part of Wikipedia:ARBPIA when it's not mentioned and doesn't even have a link in the main Template:Israeli–Palestinian conflict and any of its sub-templates? Sepsis must be embarrassed now by this completely false report. I would like to know what are the sanctions an editor gets for wrongly reporting another user. Thanks -Shalom11111 (talk) 02:12, 23 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by EdJohnston[edit]Shalom11111 said "EdJohnston, I'm afraid you may confused because this wasn't a warning", but my post to his talk page in October was in fact the required notice of discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBPIA. It was generated by Template:ArbCom-Alert. Anyone can verify that this is a DS notice by careful reading. It contains a large white box with a standardized notice inside it, which is hard to miss. I also logged this notice in the case (you can search the case for Shalom11111's name to verify this). EdJohnston (talk) 03:06, 23 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by Nishidani[edit]I'll take just two of these, which highlight what is problematical about Shalom11111's editing generally.
In the source,
It is obvious Shalom11111 grossly twisted or distorted the source twice, after first trying to delete the quote. Lau defending his own comments re kushim (niggers) is made out to be defending Bennett's words about the need to liquidate Arab "terrorists" when you capture them. The source says Bennett defended Lau, not, as Shalom11111 has it, Lau defended Bennett. Contexts where Israeli politicians talk of shooting Palestinians ('“I have killed lots of Arabs in my life – and there is no problem with that.”) obviously comes under WP:ARBPIA and Shalom11111 has been around enough to know that.Nishidani (talk) 11:36, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Ravpapa[edit]I saw this request this morning, shortly after it was created. I had been mulling it over, thinking if I want to contribute a comment, when, to my surprise, I found that action had already been taken. Without expressing an opinion about the merits of the decision, I feel that a bit more time for editors to comment would have been appropriate. --Ravpapa (talk) 12:56, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Sean.hoyland[edit]I'm curious what would have happened if this case had been filed based on Nishidani's evidence rather than Sepsis II's and there had been no 1RR violation. Sean.hoyland - talk 13:55, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Result concerning Shalom11111[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
Statement by Shalom11111[edit]
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Summichum
[edit]| Warned. Heimstern Läufer (talk) 02:24, 25 February 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Summichum[edit]
In addition to what I have explained in the number 2 of the Diffs section, I want to add that the Hezbollah article has this notice: Template:Editnotices/Page/Hezbollah. So it is very clear that the article is under ARBPIA.
Discussion concerning Summichum[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Summichum[edit]I had updated to "alleged Terrorist Organisation". Is it not true?. This allegation comes as an official decree from multiple major countries like USA, EU, Canada and Gulf ? O I just checked other articles on AlQaeda etc , even they are not written as Terrorist, hence I accept the claim by IRISZOOM and also I am a new user and was not aware of that Arab-Palestine protection tag. Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Summichum[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. The request lacks the required diff of a warning per WP:AC/DS#Warnings. Sandstein 18:35, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
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Arbitration enforcement appeal by Ivan Štambuk
[edit]| The appeal is dismissed. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:19, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
Statement by Ivan Štambuk[edit]I have 45 modern English dictionaries installed for Abby Lingvo and not a single one has derogatory or offensive label next to the definition of the word nationalist. nationalist is not a national epithet either (that would be Croatian or Serbian). Croatian nationalist means "They have Croatian-centric view and I do not agree with it". I asked User:Shokatz where exactly does he see personal attacks but he ignored it. I'm troubled by the blocking admin not being a native speaker of English but German, and the negative connotations that the word nationalist (that also shares the root with Nazi) existing in German but not in English. --Ivan Štambuk (talk) 13:37, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Sandstein[edit]The block was a response to personal attacks as described in my response to the enforcement request, above. WP:NPA, a core conduct policy, requires editors to not make comments about another editor's person, rather than about the content at issue. This prohibits editors from calling each other nationalists, or any other kind of -ists. This applies especially if editors do so, as Ivan Štambuk did here, in a dismissive and confrontative manner: it is clear from the wording and tone of Ivan Štambuk's comments, as cited in the enforcement request, that they used the appellation "nationalist" in a derogatory sense and certainly not as a compliment; and this was also how the term was understood by the editor at whom it was directed. Because this appeal indicates that Ivan Štambuk does not understand this, the block continues to serve the purpose of preventing similar interactions by Ivan Štambuk. The appeal should therefore be declined. Sandstein 18:39, 21 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by Shokatz[edit]Since I was involved in this and the user specifically refers to me I will reply. You have repeatedly labelled me a "Croatian nationalist", while I have warned you (as have others) several times that such behavior is unproductive and personally insulting and derogatory, yet you have continued to do so even on WP:ANI. I consider it a blatant ad hominem personal attack, especially in the context and the manner in which you used it. Not only have you used "Croatian nationalist" you have also labelled me "POV-pusher" and similar other derogatory terms which clearly implies that you have meant it in a manner implying I am some extreme nationalist, impartial and unable of NPOV. If you really have 45 English dictionaries you should definitely know that the term nationalism is in modern-day context associated and synonymous with Chauvinism -> . If you really think that you haven't done anything wrong then you really need to re-read some of the Wiki policies such as WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL. Shokatz (talk) 17:05, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 2)[edit]Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Ivan Štambuk[edit]The use of the term nationalist as in the supplied diffs is indeed problematic, and continues even here in this appeal: "Paranoia is BTW a common characteristic of nationalists who see fifth columns and domestic traitors in every corner". This, clearly, is personalizing the dispute. Ivan was warned here that "Any comment that attributes bad motives to an editor or otherwise insults an editor is going to draw a block". I don't know how you could receive that warning and then expect to be able to say "The problem with nationalists such as yourself is that they believe that their own particular interpretation of history is the 'truth', and the rest is pseudoscience, nationalist quackery etc." However, I disagree with Sandstein's claim that any labeling of a group with an -ist term would be problematic. It was here, but it wouldn't necessarily be. Also, I agree that Sandstein's quote from WIAPA, "national ... epithets ... directed against another contributor", is not quite relevant: a later line from WIAPA is more to the point here: "Criticisms of, or references to, personal behavior in an inappropriate context, like on a policy or article talk page, or in an edit summary, rather than on a user page or conflict resolution page. Remember: Comment on content, not on the contributor." I don't have any problem with the term in general, but Ivan was grouping people together ("They have Croatian-centric view and I do not agree with it"), ascribing negative qualities/etc to them, and using that broad generalization in a discussion about content. Don't do that. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 22:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC) Have to agree with the above here. Ivan received a fairly clear and obvious warning, linked to above, about personalizing the dispute, and apparently did so anyway. Calling another editor a "nationalist" regarding a content dispute clearly qualifies as such. It may or may not be the case that Sandstein behaved less than optimally as well, but that is irrelevant to the matter of the block of Ivan. Based on the evidence presented, I have to say that I personally don't see what would seem to me to be the required evidence to overturn the sanction applied. John Carter (talk) 01:02, 22 February 2014 (UTC) After reading Ivan's appeal text, and having been caught in irritating arbitration processes before myself, I read all of the diffs referenced critically. My clear and honest impression is that Ivan does seem to be working towards NPOV, making constructive arguments, as evidenced in his primary statement (regarding the lack of primary evidence for a writer's self-identification as Serbian or Croatian, and the fact that the modern political geography did not yet exist and therefore categorization either way is rather ridiculous, and that dual categorization is a viable alternative to bickering). If the cherry-picked complaint diffs cannot succeed in giving a more negative opinion, then I think this is an essentially frivolous accusation and his appeal is valid. The root of this whole issue appears to be the use and interpretation of the term nationalist, where in fact replacing this term with the Wiki-ese word 'partisan' would remove the offense and generally clarify the comments that appear to lie at the root of the offense here. As someone writing a history book, I think the entire argument about national identification of a dead person before one or more of the modern states even existed is ridiculous - the person should be identified with the policial state in which they lived at the time, and bracketed statements like (located in modern Country) are the full extent of post-facto national referencing that would appear to be useful or defensible. Capiche? prat (talk) 11:31, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
Result of the appeal by Ivan Štambuk[edit]
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Interfase
[edit]| Interfase (talk · contribs) indefinitely topic-banned. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 19:22, 27 February 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Interfase[edit]
History of warnings and sanctions:
User:Interfase has a long history of edit warring and unfounded accusations. As of late he was in dispute with me, User:Divot and User:Roses&guns, among others. On October 16, 2014, not so long ago, Interfase was put under sanctions for his conduct through a complaint filed by User:Yerevantsi. Among reasons to enact sanctions administrators cited unfounded and repeated accusation in vandalism. User:Sandstein explained to Interfase what is vandalism and what vandalism is not . The sanction has apparently had zero effect on Interfase. He continues disregarding WP:NPOV, fails to meaningfully engage with other editors, and above all continues to accuse his discussants in vandalism. Plus, his latest edit displays a battleground attitude ("Go and put this warning on your talk page …).
Discussion concerning Interfase[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Interfase[edit]I don't agree with user Hablabar and the descision about topic ban. User Hablabar removed whole informative section based on reliable sources from the article. His actions is against improvement of the article. Without any discussions he just removed whole section. --Interfase (talk) 20:25, 27 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Interfase[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. It looks like the request has merit. The background is apparently that Interfase introduced content to Azerbaijan on 17:06, 24 February 2014. Hablabar undid this addition with an edit summary indicating neutrality concerns. Interfase undid that removal on 11:39, 25 February 2014 with the edit summary "WP:VANDALISM. Don't delete information based on reliable sources". Then there were some more back-and-forth reverts by others, and the talk page discussion mentioned in the complaint.Considering that the previous warning to Interfase not to refer to content disagreements as vandalism (see WP:NOTVAND) was not successful, and that inaccurate accusations of vandalism are personal attacks (see WP:NPA), I am of a mind to impose a topic ban regarding Azerbaijan on Interfase. Sandstein 10:26, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
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Hablabar
[edit]| Not actionable as a complaint. If an appeal was intended, please use {{Arbitration enforcement appeal}} or talk to the sanctioning admin. Sandstein 18:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Hablabar[edit]
When I tried to improve the section about Etymology of Azerbaijan article adding the historical map as an illustration some users were against this map in the section. User Hablabar also wrote that he is against the map. I filled a request in Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard where the coordinator wrote: "I don't see what that argument has to do with the meaning of the word "Azerbaijan" which is all that the Etymology section is about. It's not about what territory the term includes, it's only about how the word originated." After that I added new section in the article, where the usage of the term "Azerbaijan" for the territory of Azerbaijan was described. The section was based on reliable sources. After that the coordinator in Dispute resolution noticeboard closed the discussion with statement "Filing editor has created a new section and intends to discuss whether the Caucasus map is appropriate in that section. The dispute for which this listing was made, dealing with the Etymology section, thus appears to be resolved". But user Hablabar without any discussion on the talkpage and without any arguments against the authority of used sources removed the section. I think he do this because the discussed map could be used in this section to illustrate the usage of the term "Azerbaijan" as it was mentioned in the article. Also user Hablabar did nothing to improve the article. That is why I claimed that the edits of Hablabar was a vandalism against "Azerbaijan" article, trying to hide from the readers historical facts. After that user wrote a request against me and without waiting my statements the descision about my topic ban was made. I claim this sanction as unfair action against me, because the descision was made without waiting of my explanation of my position. Thus, the issue should be reviewed and sanctions about Hablabar must be done.
Discussion concerning Hablabar[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Hablabar[edit]Please note that Interfase continues violating his topic ban despite the warnings, e.g. article Nijat Rahimov. Hablabar (talk) 18:09, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Notification for administrators. User Hablabar tried to show my "violations" by linking to the article about weightlifter. Actually, there is no any topic ban, claiming that I couldn't create or edit any article. This his action (as previous in Azerbaijan article) shows that the purpose of this user is to stop the improvement of Azerbaijani topic in English Wikipedia. That is why I think that the topic ban on editing the articles of Azerbaijani topic for this user must be sanctioned. --Interfase (talk) 22:16, 28 February 2014 (UTC) Please note that Interfase continues violating his topic ban despite the warnings, this time it is the article Abbasgulu Bakikhanov. Hablabar (talk) 02:10, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by EtienneDolet[edit]This edit seems to be in violation as well. Étienne Dolet (talk) 22:01, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
Result concerning Hablabar[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Not only is this complaint about a content dispute (about whether some text is reliably sourced enough to be retained in an article) and as such not actionable, but it is also a rehash of Interfase's conduct that caused them to be topic-banned in the section dedicated to the complaint about them, above. Consequently this complaint is made in violation of Interfase's topic ban. In addition, it appears that Interfase continues to make other edits without heed to their topic ban, such as at . Perhaps this reflects a lack of understanding of their sanction, considering that the ban message did not include the explanations found in the template {{AE sanction}}.To the extent the complaint also contains an objection to the fact that Interfase was topic-banned without giving them the opportunity to make a statement, which I agree is not good practice in most cases, this objection would need to be submitted and examined separately as an appeal, per WP:AC/DS#Appeal. Sandstein 21:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
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Tom Butler
[edit]| Tom Butler is topic banned from Rupert Sheldrake in accordance with the terms at WP:TBAN. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:57, 5 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Tom Butler[edit]
This is a continuation of a trend which has been going on for years:
See and for explicitly laying out of battleground behaviour/worldview. This editor has been problematic over a prolonged period in the topic area of pseudoscience and fringe science. Second Quantization (talk) 23:27, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Tom Butler[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Tom Butler[edit]There is little point in responding in detail. I think diff # 7: 16:35, 13 October 2013 provided by Second Quantization pretty well sums all of this up. His statement for that diff: " Attempts to make Morphic resonance appear like a scientific hypothesis." In fact, the subject is "Hypothesis of Formative Causation." That is what the still living subject of the biography calls it. "Morphic resonance" is what he has named as one of the possible mechanisms. This is a simple fact that should be disclosed in the article. Interestingly, there seems to be no place in Wikipedia for a reader to discover the details of the hypothesis ... only that the man is a pariah of science. A modern curse: "May you have a biography article in Wikipedia." The real issue is a group of cooperating editors (see here for example) are working to avoid words in articles they think add special significance to the subject because they have managed to classify the subjects as pseudoscience. "Broadly interpreted" (does it actually say "construed" anywhere?) has been taken to mean "Anything that sounds scientific." Reading the Pseudoscience arbitration report, I do not see that there was an intention of the admins to block balanced reporting in articles or open discussion on talk pages concerning alternative views of science. The other two arbitrations that seem to apply to this question Fringe and Paranormal also leave room for reasonable exchanges and disclosure. It is simply not encyclopedic to give the reader only half the story or to couch the subject in terms intended to bias the reader. Yes, it is important to explain the amount of community support, but you have to at least disclose what is being talked about in a fair manner. All of my edits have been intended to balance articles and certainly not push an agenda promoting the subjects. All of my comments on talk pages revolve around the same intention. Yes, I get a little testy, especially on a talk page that have seen several admin charges and blocking of editors. The Rupert Sheldrake talk page certainly is not a cooperative place, and as Simonm223 noted here, I did say as much to him. My apologies Simonm but you did petty much get in my face with those references. Simonm, take a look at the comments by Barney: "... he has somewhat bizarre beliefs about the paranormal and his own competence to investigate the paranormal" and "His does not seem to have a great grasp of reality." I am going to guess his idea of " to become competent" means to repent, denounce pseudoscience and pledge myself to scientism. And then he attacked PhiChiPsiOmega. Do not wonder that I say it is not civil around here. Oh, and Barney, it is insulting that you assume, after all I have said, that I intend to use Citizendium as a platform for biased articles. Have more respect for me as I do for the editors there! I do hope to see articles that are balanced and fair. If not, then I will host the subject area in the Collective. It is important that the public is at least aware of these concepts, but believe me, I am the last person working with paranormal subjects to want to see faith-based articles. But then, I doubt you can comprehend that. To all of the editors here, consider the embattled atmosphere you have come to think of as normal. Look at how many editors supporting balanced articles have been banned. Then look at the likes of super skeptic ScienceApologist who openly edits and even talks to support banning others. One of his major campaigns under his earlier screen name was to get rid of civility rules. Many of you look up to him, else he would not be around. One of the funniest exchanges I have seen on Wikipedia is also a sad demonstration of the poised waters. it is here. You have to ask yourself why there are so many seemingly well educated people coming along to say that the articles are not balanced, and why it is necessary to spend so much time defending yourselves and your idea of Wikipedia. It is irrational to not question yourself, as well. You will succeed in banning me, if not now, certainly later. As it happens, I was staying away to write a book but someone poked at me and here I am again. It is necessary that I get back to work in the real world, and yes of course, this action will be in the book :-). Tom Butler (talk) 23:41, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Simonm223[edit]Tom Butler came to my attention on February 26 when I noticed him attempting to change language regarding the scientific consensus surrounding Sheldrake's morphic resonance concept. He stopped short of WP:3RR but responded on the talk page with rather hostile comments. I asked him to be careful about personal attacks and his response was to tell me that the article was never civil, suggesting WP:BATTLEGROUND sentiments. That was the last I heard from him on this thread. However he reappeared during a discussion with a new user PhiChiPsiOmega who also had reservations about the consensus view regarding parapsychological articles. I have suggested elsewhere that PhiChiPsiOmega would benefit from mentorship somewhere away from these articles to learn the ropes. Instead Tom Butler reached out to him and made statements that first assumed no good faith and second appeared to be aimed at recruiting him to act in a WP:MEAT fashion with conversation off-site. Tom Butler also made statements that walked the edge of WP:NLT. I cautioned him about using words like slander on his talk page (because the decision had been reached already that WP:AN/I was not the appropriate venue for the conversation) and he responded to me insisting I take the converstion back to the AN/I page. When I declined he did anyway, directly breaching WP:NLT. I'm concerned that when you combine his contentiousness, threats of legal action and tendency to assume bad faith with his actions trying to drive a wedge between editors he may see as kindred spirits and the Wikipedia community you create a dangerous combination. One final note - I'm confused by Tom Butler's comments (listed in a diff above) that I was upset about him recruiting people for Citizendium. I'm not sure where he got that sense from. Simonm223 (talk) 00:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Regarding Liz's suggestions that I was canvassed - I have been involved in this particular dispute since Feb. 26 and would have participated in it regardless of whether I was notified, as I monitor this noticeboard. Simonm223 (talk) 17:40, 4 March 2014 (UTC) A note - dif 55 is not Tom Butler. Simonm223 (talk) 21:39, 4 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by TheRedPenOfDoom[edit]Penwhale Statement by PhiChiPsiOmega[edit]If I may say something to Penwhale (nice to meet you, BTW), I do not find any problem with Tom Butler, despite some of the bizarre beliefs he holds. Simonm's argument about him doesn't seem supported, and I would really like to talk about parapsychology more objectively, perhaps in a more formal setting? PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 8:25 pm, Today (UTC−5) OK. Simon's statement above is wildly inaccurate. Mr. Butler may have bizarre beliefs, but he's not "latching on to me", and there is absolutely nothing in those posts of his implying legal action. He's only saying Rupert Sheldrake is thinking of suing. If Simon can point out where exactly TOM's threat lies, I would be glad. Until then, this framing of Mr. Butler doesn't work, and I think the committee should reconsider its decision. If not now, then sometime in the future. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 20:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC) He also exhibits no battleground mentality. Like me, he simply thinks this has gone far enough, and that the other side of the academic debate on psi -- the proponents -- needs to be included. Here, you are only representing one half of the articles and literature and completely ignoring the other half, including their replies to the first. My case stands that the literature on this is labyrinthine, and labeling it "pseudoscience" is not an easy task, especially for a Wiki article. PhiChiPsiOmega (talk) 20:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Barney the barney barney (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC)[edit]It is my opinion that a ban from all fringe/pseudoscience articles, broadly construed, is appropriate. Tom Butler (talk · contribs) is simply not WP:COMPETENT to edit. The reason for this is that he has somewhat bizarre beliefs about the paranormal and his own competence to investigate the paranormal. His website which he's posted a link to on his user page, is extremely enlightening. His does not seem to have a great grasp of reality. The strange thing is he seems to recognise that he's not going to get any traction on Wikipedia for his bizarre ideas, yet continues to surreptitiously try to make edits here. Maybe he wants to turn himself into some kind of martyr, I don't know. Best that he just goes away and stops wasting people's time. It's low level disruption, but it's persistent. He also thinks he and other editors can go over to citizendium and contribute there. Although I understand that that project is (1) dead in the water (2) I understand that citizendium has realised its previous errors in allowing self-appointed "experts" to WP:OWN articles (thus an expert with training in homeopathy can prevent critical commentary on what clearly is WP:BOLLOCKS). Citizendium needs Butler about as much as Wikipedia does, which is not at all. My suggestion would be for (1) an indefinite ban and (2) a ban from all fringe articles. I believe that (1) Tom isn't going to change his world view any time soon, and is unlikely to become competent (2) any half-hearted subject bans will steer him into being disruptive in slightly different areas. Anything less than a full whack will in the long term inevitably result in further low-level disruption on different pages, and will end up back here again. I have already predicted that PhiChiPsiOmega (talk · contribs) will go the same way for WP:IDONTHEARTHAT on WP:FRINGE. It is telling who his supporters are. Barney the barney barney (talk) 14:20, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by iantresman[edit]I think that most admins who do some basic fact-checking, will find that the criticisms are (a) misleading (b) not supported by the diffs.
There is no doubt that members of the scientific community have rejected Sheldrake, and many have rejected his work, and even called it pseudoscience. Suggesting it is unanimous and absolute is a gross mispresentation of the facts (sources), and Butler has already acknowledged that there "many" who reject Sheldrake (#2 above). --Iantresman (talk) 21:17, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Goblin Face[edit]I already filed a complaint against Tom Butler and PhiChiPsiOmega on the Administrators' noticeboard . Butler is not on Wikipedia to edit articles, his entire existence is to just stir trouble for Wikipedia because his fringe beliefs are not being supported on this website. His agenda is anti-Wikipedia to cause problems here about his conspiracy theories regarding "censorship" and skeptics. I am very surprised this user has not been banned considering all the damage he is trying to do to it off this website: Not only does he have part of his own website attacking Wikipedia and it's policies but he spams anti-Wikipedia comments and conspiracy theories about "skeptics" high jacking wikipedia articles on paranormal blogs and websites: What I find hilarious is that he constantly claims to be "neutral" and "objective" and has the aim of allegedly making Wikipedia "balanced" but in actual fact all he wants to do is delete any critical or skeptical material on paranormal related articles. He openly rejects the scientific consensus. If anyone adds anything critical about these subjects he calls that editor "biased". I look through his edits and there's nothing constructive. He seems to be mostly using this website as a forum for his conspiracy theories. Butler's "alternative" to Wikipedia that he has been promoting on here and encouraging users (see his comment to PhiChiPsiOmega) to join has been open for a few months and since that time he has created only two articles, one is selectively copied and paste from the parapsychology article on Wikipedia and the other is an article on near-death experiences with 0 critical or skeptical content. So much for balanced articles. Goblin Face (talk) 00:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by 76.107.171.90[edit]@Penwhale – If you don’t think that enough evidence has been provided to show that Tom is WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopedia and that Tom has exhibited a pattern of disruptive behavior then please tell me what evidence you would consider sufficient to meet the burden of proof. Tom Butler’s editing history chronicles seven years of fringe pushing behavior and more diffs are easily supplied. Alternately, you could open Tom’s history and just look through it. Fringe pushing is essentially all that Tom has ever done at Wikipedia so you won’t really have to search for problematic edits, you can just click on them at random and the evidence will present itself. 76.107.171.90 (talk) 12:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I think it should be mentioned that 76.107.171.90, who originally wrote up this request case (although Second Quantization submitted it on his behalf) was canvassing for this request for enforcement to Barney, The Red Pen of Doom, Goblin Face, Simonm223, jps and Roxy the dog, all editors who were likely to post statements against Tom Butler and have been known to agree in past debates. These were the only individuals he notified about the case. Liz Read! Talk! 16:37, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Context:Tom Butler has made 3 comments (4 edits) in 2 1/2 months (since December 23) Does he have a right to feel frustrated. For example this personal attack on him
Butler's response despite the personal attack is even and measured
One editor against many in the last over- two months, with legitimate concerns per our guidelines and policies, facing personal criticism has made three comments in over two months yet he has been dragged here. This whole situation bears on-going watching rather than a sanction to one and walking away as if the problem is solved(Littleolive oil (talk) 21:17, 4 March 2014 (UTC)) Disclaimer: I'm probably as skeptical as many about some of the fringe topics. My concerns is that these topics and most especially BLP articles be treated fairly if they are to be a part of a legitimate and reputable encyclopedia.(Littleolive oil (talk) 21:26, 4 March 2014 (UTC)) Result concerning Tom Butler[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Kafkasmurat
[edit]| Kafkasmurat is subject to a standard one revert per twenty four hours rule on all pages related to Armenia, Azerbaijan, or related ethnic conflicts. Kafkasmurat is also subject to a personal attacks parole, if any uninvolved administrator believes Kafkasmurat makes a personal attacks they may block Kafkasmurat pursuant to the standardized enforcement provision. Kafkasmurat is warned that they will likely be topic banned for any further violations of Wikipedia's norms. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 07:14, 5 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Kafkasmurat[edit]
Kafkasmurat is a denier of the Armenian Genocide and displays a disruptive editing pattern that is overtly nationalist. Although the user is entitled to his opinions about 1915, he has nevertheless spilled his WP:POV all over Wikipedia articles. The user has a long history of disruption dating back to 2007. In his first three edits as a Wikipedian, the user blanked the entire Armenian Genocide article with an edit-summary that calls it an "unnecessary article" and has edit-warred over it bypassing the WP:3RR limit (DIFFS: ). Surprisingly, the user was only given a 3RR warning. After taking a break, the user has returned in December of 2013. He continued his disruption even after he receives a formal warning: Removes sourced information on the Armenian Genocide
Incivil and racist remarks:
Copying and pasting information about genocide denial in numerous articles to make a WP:POINT: Misuse of sources to make a WP:POINT
P.S. The FORUM-like edits on the talkpage were reverted by Drmies with an edit-summary by him stating "language not really appropriate for talk pages of articles". If this language is inappropriate for talk pages, I could safely assume it is inappropriate for articles as well.
The disruption the user has caused the past month is considerable. Although he has already been blocked for his conduct, he continues to disrupt Wikipedia extensively. Most of his edits are driven by his own personal opinions and often times fall contrary to the general consensus Wikipedia has instilled. I propose that Kafkasmurat be banned from all topics related to Armenia and Turkey.
Discussion concerning Kafkasmurat[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Kafkasmurat[edit]Hey, i lost hope on Wikipedia with a 24 hour block: because of saying something at talk page. After that i tried to make minor adjustments while reading. Everything i did have trusted references. The user who complained about me, Étienne Dolet, has hundreds of black propaganda edits. All of this users' edits are anti- Turkish editions. That's meaningful. I should remind that blocking or humiliating users don't prevent anything. Only break down the hope. Thanks for objective reviews.--Kafkasmurat (talk) 22:35, 21 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Kafkasmurat[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. "Sanction or remedy to be enforced" just links to the arbcom case, I'm assuming Wikipedia:AA2#Standard_discretionary_sanctions is meant. I'm not seeing much of anything recent in these diffs; i.e., since the warning in December. Maybe the "You always contribute anti-Turkish additions" line, but I'm not sure there's anything we can act on here in this forum. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 22:34, 21 February 2014 (UTC)
It looks like there's bad blood between the two parties, but Kafkasmurat does seem to be displaying a battleground mentality. I'd have no qualms about a topic ban. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:24, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
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Pigsonthewing
[edit]| No enforcement action taken. Sandstein 14:09, 5 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Pigsonthewing[edit]
A user recently wrote to me to point out Andy Mabbit's recent deletion nominations of a number of navigational and informational pages in the template namespace. I am concerned that this breaches the relevant Arbitration remedy linked above: "Pigsonthewing is indefinitely banned from adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes". However, I wanted to get other opinions before taking any unilateral action. NW (Talk) 17:53, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Pigsonthewing[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Pigsonthewing[edit]Statement by Harry Mitchell[edit]Andy's a personal friend of mine in real life, so I won't take any part in this as an admin, but I was under the impression that the remedy concerned additions to and removals from articles—the case came about as a result of persistent rows on article talk pages (and associated edit wars) about whether a given article should have an infobox. I wouldn't have thought that making infobox-related edits (such as nominating infoboxes for deletion) that aren't about whether a particular article should have an infobox would be in violation of the remedy. Perhaps a clarification/amendment request is needed—the remedy should probably end with "to or from articles" or spell out exactly what it means. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 18:27, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by RexxS[edit]Over the last month Andy and a couple of other editors have cleaned up Wikipedia:List of infoboxes, classifying 4000+ templates. This effort identified about 400 templates that are used in less than five articles. Some of these will be redundant to other highly-used templates and replacing them would be a step towards improving the maintenance of templates, since changes (like re-writing into Lua) then need to be done fewer times. Andy has been looking at a number of these and proposing some for deletion over the last few weeks. In several cases, these have led to replacement of virtually unused templates with equivalent ones. In other cases, debate has thrashed out the issues and discussion is continuing. Here's an example: On one occasion, Andy Dingley decided to direct his argument at Andy, rather than the issue of keeping a template that's only used on two pages: You'll notice that Andy does not rise to the bait and respond to the off-topic ad hominem at that point. The closing admin considered that two transclusions were enough to justify keeping that template. All of Andy's activities at TfD have been aimed at maintenance of templates - a far cry from the focus of the Infobox case that went before ArbCom. So I am astonished that anyone is attempting to widen the scope of the already broad ArbCom remedy
Statement by Montanabw[edit]There is no violation; Andy's restriction was specifically limited to articles, and only to the adding and removing of infoboxes in articles. Here, we are talking cleanup and technical work on the underlying templates that infoboxes use, not the "adding or removing" of infoboxes to articles. Nothing in the Arbcom decision stated that Andy was banned from all discussions, broadly construed, about infoboxes - and definitely not infobox templates. His competence in this area is unquestioned and he does some very critical cleanup work. Further, this is one of wikipedia's best-known contributors with known technical competence - though perhaps being interviewed on all tech considered by NPR counts for nothing? This is nothing but scapegoating of an editor who is trying to remain a content contributor and useful member of the community while working with the constraints of an arbcom decision. Do not read into the decision what isn't there. Montanabw(talk) 23:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC) @Sandstein: deletion of a template doesn't "remove it from the article" due to redirecting. For example, {{Infobox thoroughbred racehorse}} recently became {{Infobox racehorse}}, and not one single infobox disappeared due to this change. Montanabw(talk) 23:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Gerda[edit]Andy deserves a barnstar. RexxS, Floquenbeam and others explained well why. (I said at some point (back in 2012) that nothing surprises me here anymore, but this did.) Lets look at an example: there was {{infobox Bruckner symphony}} with ten inclusions, it was replaced by {{infobox musical composition}}, the other was deleted. The original infobox was added on 10 August 2007, the replacement was done on 10 June 2013. The reader sees the same as before (actually more), especially today. To clean up like that, replace little used infoboxes by more general, well maintained ones, is excellent gnomish work for the higher quality of Wikipedia and deserves a barnstar, not this. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 08:21, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Andy Dingley[edit]Andy Mabbett does not have a topic ban because of his view that infoboxes either should, or should not, be used. He has a topic ban because he finds it perennially impossible to work with others and this came to a head over infoboxes. The topic ban is not there because "his answer is wrong", but because his methods and attitude are disruptive overall. It is a regular problem on WP, especially around topic bans, that a particular editor becomes fixated on some topic and there is trouble in that area (If you have had a topic ban imposed, it's clearly not all sweetness and light). Such editors are commonly most reluctant to move away from their same area of fixation, even after repeated warnings, and this is not something likely to end well. Another regular occurrence is the banned editor wikilawyering to be just outside the ban's scope, as close as they can possibly get without breaching it. That is not an act that recognises the wisdom of the ban overall and is instead sticking two fingers up at the banning community to say, "You were wrong to exclude me". I'm here now (even on WP I have better things to do than waste time discussing Andy Mabbett) because I was cited above for making ad hominem attacks. It is not an ad hominem to note that someone busily engaged in infobox template deletion is under a closely related topic ban, even if careful study does show that they're acting just outside the boundaries of such a ban. As to the basis of these deletions, yet again WP finds itself discussing "programming" issues in a way that would make any experienced coder weep (It is regular WP practice to exclude expert template coders from working on templates because templates, via protection, are seen to, and are made to, require an admin's skillset, not a template expert). Useful principles like abstraction are ignored, in favour of trivial bean counting. "We should delete {{Infobox material}} because it is only used twice" is nonsense. It is firstly easy to measure that it is used twice, but a lot harder to judge whether the template is useful. A much better question (per WP:IMPERFECT) is instead "How often can this template be used?" {{Infobox material}} offers a lot of potential uses in mechanics and materials science, whether it is currently used much or not. Judging it based on current uses is just pandering to Andy Mabbett's need to work on infoboxes, and an easy metric for choosing which to delete. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:18, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by olive[edit]..."adding, or discussing the addition or removal of, infoboxes". Andy's sanction per NW's quote above does not include removal of infoboxes it includes discussion of removal of info boxes. Further, he didn't remove info boxes as has been explained multiple times in this AE. Even if he wasn't an incredibly valuable editor as has been pointed out here still, we cannot allow the support of incorrect interpretations of sanctions most especially to harm any editor. This is a simple case of misreading the sanction. I hope those who have mis read will have the good will to admit a mistake and close this AE.(Littleolive oil (talk) 20:31, 4 March 2014 (UTC)) Editors have the right to demand the wording of sanctions be adhered to. Asking that first, the sanction and what it includes be precise (the arbs job), and second, that editors who question extrapolation of that sanction are pursuing legalistic wording, is wrong and unfair. (Littleolive oil (talk) 20:39, 4 March 2014 (UTC)) NE Ent[edit]Checking .... not bureaucracy ... still a pillar! Common sense ... alas ... just a "may represent widespread norms or minority viewpoints" essay. Arbcom exists for for "serious conduct disputes". Trivial tech work on templates don't qualify. NE Ent 02:51, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
Result concerning Pigsonthewing[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. As far as I can see, PotW is not opening up issues over whether or not to include a box in any given article, but is concerned merely with the technical question of weeding out some extremely rare and presumably redundant templates for them. It seems like a harmless enough thing to do. Was it really the intention of the committee to ban this kind of activity too? Fut.Perf. ☼ 18:05, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
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Askahrc
[edit]| Tabled for now, with the understanding that there is a low bar for reporting newer disruption. NW (Talk) 20:12, 5 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Askahrc[edit]
There is some administrative time lag here. I planned to submit this AE upon the closing of an SPI, which was expected to be contemporaneous with the ANI Askahrc recently initiated. However the SPI backlog has been so large that it has taken a full two weeks for the SPI to be closed.
vzaak 17:49, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Askahrc[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Askahrc[edit]Let me get this straight, half of the AE is spent discussing an SPI that Vzaak then concedes has no relevance to this AE except as some sort of character reference? I've already agreed to respect and abide by the SPI admin's judgement, whether or not I agree with their conclusions, and have done nothing to violate those terms. It seems Vzaak was hoping for a harsher SPI result and is now shopping for that ban. As for the rest of this AE, what exactly am I being accused of?
To sum up, Vzaak's examples of my abusive behavior include: disagreeing with Vzaak, declaring that Vzaak's reactions to disagreement are excessive (which was immediately followed by a SPI and AE against me), and being upfront with getting more information on a banned editor. Are these AE offenses? There are no diffs of unreasonable edits, no abuses, no evidenced anywhere showing my behavior on Rupert Sheldrake itself to be inappropriate in any way. I have not and will not abuse the Sheldrake page and respectfully urge reconsideration of a topic ban. The Cap'n (talk) 03:50, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by The Devil's Advocate[edit]The SPI was just closed with a discretionary sanction imposed on The Cap'n and there have been no further edits by the editor since then. It seems Vzaak is displeased that the sanction was not tougher and is now shopping for a better result.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 19:01, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Just noticed that Vzaak previously tried to get an admin to go after Cap'n concerning most of the non-sock issues being cited here. Many details are being rehashed in this AE that have previously not resulted in action despite being brought before admins with the intent of getting action.--The Devil's Advocate tlk. cntrb. 05:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Second Quantization[edit]The SPI was about sockpuppetry and did not consider other areas of disruption by Askahrc. It is not forum shopping. What is the relevance of the date of the SPI filing to anything else? Second Quantization (talk) 23:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Barney the barney barney (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2014 (UTC)=[edit]I find that Mr Askahrc (talk · contribs) has been problematic, confrontational, condescending and failing to WP:IDONTHEARTHAT. I can't work out if he's pro-Sheldrake or just a self-appointed BLP warrior. Credit to him for trying his best to present the pro-Sheldrake view. The thing is we've bent over backwards to try to make the Rupert Sheldrake article positive by noting his support within the new age/pro-psi parapsychology communities, even though this support is not at all in any way relevant to the quasi-scientific claims he's making. Either way he's not helpful and should probably be strongly advised to stay away from the article Rupert Sheldrake. Then we'll see if he's a BLP warrior or not by whether he (1) chooses to go to another controversial BLP and try to whitewash that or (2) will go and try to subvert Citizendium with Tom Butler (talk · contribs). He's had enough WP:ROPE by now though. Barney the barney barney (talk) 21:02, 3 March 2014 (UTC) The Cap'n's main argument, as I've seen it, is that editors outside a tight-knit skeptics circle are chased off from editing certain articles, in this case Rupert Sheldrake. These repeated attempts to file charges against him by Vzaak help to make his argument for him. As far as "disruption", I've mainly seen him post an opposing point of view from the skeptics but having a different opinion from a small majority is the cause to begin seeking consensus, not to receive sanctions. As for being problematic, confrontational, condescending and failing to WP:IDONTHEARTHAT, well, that charge could be levied against several editors who edit in the area designated "pseudoscience". It is a very polarized editing field on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, I see this effort as an attempt to silence an editor with a contrary opinion which makes this a content issue, not a conduct issue. I think issuing topic bans because someone disagrees with the dominant editors on a subject, whatever topic that is, has a chilling effect that sends the message to other editors to "stay away" from editing articles in this subject area. Liz Read! Talk! 03:39, 4 March 2014 (UTC) Result concerning Askahrc[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Gilabrand
[edit]| Gilabrand (talk · contribs) indefinitely blocked for sock-puppetry; one-year AE block to run concurrently (see WP:Sockpuppet investigations/Gilabrand). HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 17:37, 10 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Gilabrand[edit]
Blocked a dozen times. See also this, this and this. See also the latest case here at AE against Gilabrand and the case at AN. In both cases, Gilabrand was informed by Georgewilliamherbert on the heightened scrutiny.
I think it is clear that Gilabrand is very biased. During the last month, it has been worse than usual and much of his edits have been on depopulated Palestinian villages. Since then, I have taken a look on his edits because, as evidenced above, he keeps making unjustified edits on articles. He also made massremovals on List of villages depopulated during the Arab–Israeli conflict, including one after an editor wrote in talk page why it is not acceptable and an another editor reverting him. In the talk page about Khirbat al-Tannur, he said for some days ago that "it is time to look closer" on "'Village' lists drawn up by Palestinian advocacy sites have been circulating for years now, and copied by everyone and his grandmother without question". Maybe that explains his edits but "looking closer" does not mean making such biased changes. But of course, it is more than his changes on depopulated Palestinian villages. It is about the whole topic area. It can not continue like this. One thing I am happy for is that he is editing about a well covered topic. Just imagine if he was doing this to a much lesser known topic.
I think it is clear how Gilabrand's conduct is unacceptable. He constantly removes or misrepresents claims so that it favor Israel ahead of Palestinian and other viewspoints. Like as showed above, he removes that villages were depopulated, makes up why they were depopulated or cherrypicks, diminish Israeli military actions such as in Abu Ghosh, Yibna and Khan Yunis, changes a sentence from being that the Israeli blockade (imposed after Hamas's takover) to Hamas' takeover being the reason why reconstruction of homes on destroyed by Israel (that also got removed) was halted, removes that a girl was killed, removes that Israeli forces blew up homes in a village, adds "terrorist" label, removes that there was a massacre, who attacks etc. The POV pushing is big and clear. I see it is as very unfortunante if he can continue like this. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:17, 27 February 2014 (UTC) It is an issue with NPOV, which I think Gilabrand fails to adhere to so many times in this topic area. --IRISZOOM (talk) 22:46, 27 February 2014 (UTC) If the constant removals of relevant and sourced information and other violations such as cherrypicking showed here is not seen as punishable, I do not know what is then. But if this is allowed, then we all have to accept it and start play the same game. --IRISZOOM (talk) 23:58, 27 February 2014 (UTC) * I am surprised by your statement, Georgewilliamherbert, and the others. I can not understand how you think it is content disputes, cleanup edits etc. I am surprised because I think the pattern is clear. Maybe some is unclear now that I had to cut down my request. For example, the diff I gave on Yibna is now only one though I wanted to show different info. I gave that info but it is not clear it is different edits. Like this one and this. Explanations are given above. This is the same problem type of problem everywhere so I ask you to look at the edits again and think if the constant removals, misrepresentation and cherrypicking is not unacceptable. Otherwise, I am afraid it is like Sepsis II said. --IRISZOOM (talk) 04:38, 1 March 2014 (UTC) * Greyshark09, first of all, the evidence here is strong. Three editors and one admin agree with me. Secondly, this is my first AE case against Gilabrand. Do not make up things. I expect you to retract your claim about "wiki hounding" and to the next time, get the facts straight before making such serious allegations. I am not a POV pusher, and certainly not a "extreme" one, and even if your examples were right, saying that this is something close to removing, misrepresenting and cherrypicking info, as shown above, is not accurate. But your examples is silly and mostly because it is about you making unilateral changes and then getting reverted and then you complain that others do not accept it. And while Palestine Remembered may not be a RS, it is used many times here, because most of it is based on people like Sami Hadawi and Walid Khalidi. Even Gilabrand has used it. Secondly, as told many, many times, to put a link in External links does not require it to be a RS. It is there on nearly every article (and was there in this article too before Gilabrand removed it twice and I told both in the the talk page and edit summary why it can be there) about depopulated Palestinian villages and many others. It is nearly 700 articles. Zero0000 also brought up the issue about Palestine getting replaced. I have written several replies there and I also said that it is you, Greyshark09, who are mostly doing it but you never joined the discussion. The fact is that the region is called Palestine. This is how it is referred to by the the vast majority of of scholars. No one is referring to the State of Palestine here. The article itself is called 1834 Arab revolt in Palestine. The Arabs there are called Palestinian Arabs, which I reinserted and not "Palestinians" so again, do not make up things. Until 2010, this is what it was also inserted in the article. It is the same thing with 1915 Palestine locust infestation. You on the other hand unilaterally changed that and other articles. You have gotten reverted by atleast another user (Zero0000) on another article. When you have support to change it, do it. Now you have not and even the titles are clear on this. They are not named like that of an accident. But you are not caring about that and are imposing what you think is right and then complaining that others are not accepting your changes. The same thing with the other example. Here it is you again changing something. You did it here too. You changed from "West Bank" to "[Jordanian occupation of the West Bank|West Bank]". This is wrong for two reasons. One is that when clicking on something visible like that (read about piping), a reader expects to go to the page about that. Secondly, nearly all articles state West Bank respective Gaza Strip. Both of them were created in 1948 so when you say that we could add "Jesus too", you are making a straw man. You would maybe have a case if I had changed to Palestinian territories (created in 1967, though it refers to the West Bank and Gaza Strip) or State of Palestine (created in 1988). Maybe you could add "under Jordanian/Egyptian occupation" before/after this but this and "West Bank/Gaza Strip, under Israeli-occupation" is very rarely done when stating birth place etc., which is on the contrary to what you claim. But this was not what you did, as you are trying to portrait it by saying that it was changed from "born in Jordanian-occupied West Bank" to "born in the West Bank" when it was the same thing but different link. Again, if you are trying to build up a case, be honest and do not make up things. It is silly to see you complaining because you are getting reverted for changes you do not have any support for. --IRISZOOM (talk) 01:09, 2 March 2014 (UTC) * Ubie the Guru, an allegation and no support? It was sourced in the infobox, which Gilabrand and edited so he must have seen it. Furthermore, the removal of that it was depopulated was one of several wrong things he did on Zarnuqa. I advice you to read again. --IRISZOOM (talk) 16:22, 2 March 2014 (UTC) I will shortly answer your comments, Ubie, but keep in mind that these diffs are just a part of mine and HJ Mitchell's analys. The incident with Mashal is known and the info from AJ doesn't come from the film maker but a retired Jordanian general who was the manager of the king's office then. And again, you can't remove this but keep info against the Israeli side given by the settler agency Arutz Sheva (Israel National News). Other change here mentioned above. Here is the link to what you ask for. It is clear that it refers to Israeli forces making an offensive against the Egpytian forces who were the defending part. There is nothing POV in saying that but if you think so, discuss or reword it instead of removing it and it doesn't matter if it is only the lead. Other change here mentioned above. You have confused the part about the edits on Kalandia and Raml Zayta. With regards to Khan Yunis massacre, that many were killed does not only come from Benny Morris but also residents and UN. Morris calls it a massacre. Other change here mentioned above, like this. I think the pattern is very clear and this is not something new as evidenced by his block log. Just to give you an example of this problem, I will tell you about what happened yesterday. I was correcting ISBN errors to a book from Morris and edited 20-25 articles. When I was doing that, I found two instances where Gilabrand had edited the page and made these typical changes. One was in 2011, where he changed to "according to Walid Khalidi" and he removed "Palestinian". The other one was from last year, where he removed "depopulated". --IRISZOOM (talk) 19:12, 3 March 2014 (UTC) * Greyshark09, it is interesting that you ignored to take back your unfolded claim about "wiki hounding" and are now again discussing my conduct, while still ignoring to comment on Gilabrand, though HJ Mitchell was clear that you should file a separate claim for this. You speak about my conduct as very clearly wrong so why are you not going ahead? Is it because you maybe think it is safer to bring it up here instead of filing a separate complaint and risk backlash, as you want to happen here against me despite my evidence being strong? No matter what, you have been told about how to go forward. I am not "clearly more pushy" and this is not an "editor disagreement". This is about an editor who is making changes such as from:
to:
Protesting against that is not only right but also important. These type of changes don't develop Wikipedia but makes it less neutral and accurate. Constantly making such changes is why a sanction is correct. --IRISZOOM (talk) 06:54, 4 March 2014 (UTC) * We have around 20 diffs with many of them including several distortions (to put it lightly). That is just a period in two month with most of them made in one period of month, which is so long I have closely followed Gilabrand's edits. These edits are typical of him, which is clear as others have shown here too. I would love to have seen him change, especially after the last AE case, but some are just like this. We can't just give a green light, or even orange, to editors like that. --IRISZOOM (talk) 00:33, 6 March 2014 (UTC) * Bukrafil, no one here is stupid... --IRISZOOM (talk) 08:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC) * Shalom11111, someone who thinks that a few of the edits shown are "somewhat problematic" and that most of them are "constructive" is just not reliable. As I and others have pointed out, this is not some exception but Gilabrand is just like that. If you constantly violate NPOV, of course you should be sanctioned. Most, from both sides, understand that and don't falsify, distorts etc. things and certainly not regularly. Wikipedia is much better off without such editors. --IRISZOOM (talk) 03:05, 8 March 2014 (UTC) You are trying hard but you are wrong on the few edits you have closely looked at and you are not seeing the pattern. And again, I don't trust anyone who thinks the edits are not problematic but constructive, neutral etc. I can accept nearly everything but to argue that the edits shown here are actually good is just way too much. As you keep insisting on that my and Nishidani's examples are wrong, though he showed how wrong you were on one of them he just took as example, and as you want the the admins should look closer on them, I will answer to some of them and I can continue to clarify the evidence if that's really needed. The pattern is clear and if not the long and clear evidence by Nishidani is sufficient, I guess nothing will be. The report in the Mapam daily is the one we have and to demand we somehow find another one is silly. What can be done is to not cite it as a fact, which wasn't done either. The fact is that Gilabrand had nothing against using the report. He used it and changed to "According to a report in Al HaMishmar six villagers were killed, 22 were taken prisoner, and 40 rifles were surrendered despite previous claims of having none". But he removed that three people were killed by a soldier and that the villagers were expelled. So he takes what he likes from the source but removes things he doesn't like from it or doesn't mention it (what the villagers had to do and endure before turning in their weapons). Furthermore, that 6 villagers were killed and 22 were taken prisoner didn't come from the Mapam daily. That was just another one of Gilabrand's falsifyings and distortions. The info comes from Haganah (Jewish/Israeli forces). So the Mapam daily that looked like this in Morris' book:
and the two paragraphs after that by Morris (79x is the footnotes):
is told like this by Gilabrand who picked what he wanted from it (in addition to removing things that were already in the Wikipedia article, as explained above and below):
Okay, Shalom11111, you think it sounds like that Israel didn't depopulate the village. But instead of assuming things, why not look closer in the source? The villages was depopulated on 27-28 May. This was sourced and he must have seen it as he edited exactly that parameter in the infobox. They were expelled two times, which Gilabrand removed in one case and distorted in another. Gilabrand also removed that Jewish soldiers and nearby settlers ransacked the village of Zarnuqa. In the way he changed it, it could also look like the Yibna villagers were the one doing it. After he had removed that they were expelled the first time, he then changed the other time to being an "eviction". But he wasn't done here. He also decided to remove that the homes were demolished, as he said there was "no source", though it was on the same page. What are you trying to say? That when Morris write "They appear also to have raped and murdered a teenage girl", we can remove the part about "murdered"/"killed" because footnote 777 looks like the following?
Of course this can't be done just because Morris doesn't expand the source. And what makes you think that removing the part about killing is correct but in the same time keep the part about rape? If we are going to apply your logic, both should have been removed. What a strained attempt by you to make it look like that this was correct. It only shows that using either logic, removing only the part about killing is wrong. I also doubt that Gilabrand checked the source. If he had done it, he should have, as Nishidani said, noticed that Morris speaks about "appear" and "apparently". The source also speaks about the army-age villagers being "executed" but I wouldn't of course expect Gilabrand to accurately represent that part. As both your and Nishidani's sources show, and the original ones which was in the article and Gilabrand edited on (that was Morris on p. xviii and number six on the list and Khalidi on p. 92), there is a connection between Burayr and Bror Hayil, regardless if it is "in" or "near" (Morris use both, for example, as Nishidani show). What Gilabrand did was to make it look like Khalidi only meant that Bror Hayil is one mile away from Burayr. He actually writes on the same page (92) that "Beror Chayil" was one of the villages established on Burayr's lands. There is no doubt at all that Burayr was depopulated. All the inhabitants fled to Gaza when Israeli forces attacked in 12-13 May. This is in the article about Burayr, which Gilabrand had edited here before he made that edit to Bror Hayil, and sourced to Morris. Another thing to note is that in the former AE case, it was brought up by Huldra that Gilabrand had earlier edited on Burayr, where he changed it from:
to:
So what Gilabrand then did was removing the source to Morris and changed to that it was only something "according to the Arab historian Walid Khalidi". When it gets reverted, he comes back and tries another way, as shown here, to erase facts and Palestinian history. As I and others have said, he has shown that he can't edit in this topic area. --IRISZOOM (talk) 06:25, 9 March 2014 (UTC) * Sean.hoyland, Gilabrand responded to the investigation by saying "Oh wow. What a nice welcome home. Thanks Iriszoom and HJMitchell. Seems like you really missed me". --IRISZOOM (talk) 16:02, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Bukrafil has responded here but of course, if Gilabrand dispute it is him, he has the right to do so and there is a standard way to appeal. And the AE case was opened 12 days ago so it's not like we are speeding up things. --IRISZOOM (talk) 16:44, 10 March 2014 (UTC) * Take a look if you want. I am not the same person as Nableezy. That should be clear to everyone. --IRISZOOM (talk) 16:57, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Discussion concerning Gilabrand[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Gilabrand[edit]Statement by Nomoskedasticity[edit]I think Sandstein's instructions are unfortunate. The point here is the pattern, and without a significant range of instances and a thorough explanation it will be harder to see the pattern. If the OP cuts it down as instructed, it might well look like just a content dispute. The post at present does a good job of showing excessively tendentious editing, something that AE ought to deal with particularly in regard to an editor like Gilabrand who has a long history of it. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 20:50, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
@Georgewilliamherbert:: What do you think of IRISZOOM's example just above (diff here)? Note the edit-summary ("ce") -- thoroughly deceptive. This sort of thing is absolutely typical of this editor's engagement in the I/P topic area. I appreciate your concern about not wanting to tilt the balance towards people editing in that area from a different POV -- but surely this means that anyone who systematically does this sort of thing from a different POV needs to be dealt with similarly, rather than simply allowing it to carry on as at present. (And of course I'm perfectly happy to have my own editing scrutinised in those terms.) Nomoskedasticity (talk) 09:22, 4 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Sepsis[edit]It's obvious that Gilabrand consistently abuses wikipedia to further her POV through misrepresenting and removing reliable sources, removing facts that look poor on Israel, labeling, denialism, placing sites in incorrect countries, etc, but it's also just as obvious that AE has given up on stopping such editors. Sepsis II (talk) 23:47, 27 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by Alf.laylah.wa.laylah[edit]I hope the administrators will take the time to look into Gilabrand's problematic POV pushing. It's there in practically every edit related to Palestine. For another example, this one from earlier today, see this article move of List of Palestinian people assassinated by the Mossad to List of Palestinians allegedly assassinated by the Mossad with the edit summary "no proof". Of course there's proof. Most items on the list are sourced. The sources say the people were assassinated by the Mossad. After the move they're not "people" any more (that's not such a big issue) and they're "allegedly" assassinated. This is representative. I could add to the extensive list provided in the original request for enforcement with many more such examples. The policy they violate is WP:NPOV and the method by which they violate it is well-explained in the essay Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing. If the POV pushing isn't clear from what's here, though, I don't guess more will make it more clear.— alf laylah wa laylah (talk) 00:20, 28 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by Greyshark09[edit]Frankly it looks to me IRISZOOM is wiki hounding Gilabrand once again, as this is her second or third complaint without any strong evidence, while she herself is an extreme POV editor, which doesn't care much over wikipedia conventions. For example IRISZOOM is using PalestineRemembered as a source, while it was long ago considered as non-reliable; she is making massive edits to insert Palestine and Palestinians retroactively into history without specific reasons and without sufficient sources, like renaming the pro-Ottoman Arab clans of Nablus, Al-Quds and Halil to "Palestinians" who revolted in "Palestine" in 1834 (which obviously was an Arab Peasant rebellion is Southern Ottoman Syria and little to do with modern Palestinian nationalism), renaming the Ottoman administrative Syrian provinces into "Palestine" here once again. If i see this wiki-hounding by IRISZOOM going on further i will take a deeper look on this possible abuse myself.GreyShark (dibra) 23:01, 1 March 2014 (UTC)
@HJ Mitchell: the sanctions of ARBPIA were created in order to reduce edit-warring and create a more neutral wikipedia as a result. ARBPIA hence should balance views to create an NPOV version; banning a user for his/her views without strong reasons (edit-warring, extensive removal of material) is actually against the concept of ARBPIA. The one who is clearly more pushy in the described editor disagreement is actually IRISZOOM, who is very frequently reverting other editors on ARBPIA articles to the preferred POV version, which can be easily interpreted as propaganda - per ARBPIA the editor who issues topic-area complaint should also be sanctioned in case of violation. Hence, according to WP:ARBPIA rule, IRISZOOM might as well be sanctioned for massive reverts and tendency to edit-war.GreyShark (dibra) 05:35, 4 March 2014 (UTC) This is a very strange outcome, but i guess looking back into Gilabrand's obsessive editing we should have guessed it coming. Perhaps this is a warning to other passionate editors not to take the path of self-destruction. More concerning however is the rising claim that editors can be blocked for "POV-editing" per-se. There are clear problems with such claim, raised here by several editors and administrators (user:IZAK, myself, user:Brewcrewer, user:Sean.hoyland, user:Bus stop, user:Epeefleche and user:Georgewilliamherbert. I think maybe we should take this to ARBCOM, before a very problematic precedent it created and effectively most users might be forced to quit, making wikipedia from a democratic platform into a very fixed dictatorship, where only one view is considered "NPOV" and all others are banned.GreyShark (dibra) 16:37, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by ZScarpia[edit]@Greyshark: Even in 1834, Palestine was the common name in English for what you are insisting should be called Ottoman Southern Syria. As for the edit of the Rami Handallah article, you should look at it more carefully: Iriszoom did not change it as you describe. You should probably also read up on the statuses of the areas controlled by Israel and Jordan between 1948 and 1967. Neither area was considered to be 'occupied'. ← ZScarpia 05:05, 2 March 2014 (UTC) @Greyshark: Wikipedia policies prescribe what facts are, what points of view are and what the difference between them is. Crudely, facts are assertions which reliable sources agree on whereas points of view are assertions which one set of sources may regard as facts while others disagree. A major problem here is that some editors fail to realise that though some piece of information may be sourced, that doesn't make it a fact in Wikipedia terms, nor its presentation as a fact neutral. Some editors have pointed out that Wikipedia is not Al Jazeera; hopefully they realise that Wikipedia is NOT any source, including The Jerusalem Post, Arutz Sheva or The Jewish Virtual Library. You've suggested that an attempt is being made to block Gilabrand for her views. You should re-think that one. ← ZScarpia 20:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC) I participated in the discussions on neutral editing in previous AE reports concerning Gilabrand that have been mentioned. One view, which I argued against, was that an editor who consistently only added one side's point of view, as it was claimed that Gilabrand had, was failing to edit neutrally. It is conceivable that there may be circumstances under which an editor is only adding one point of view where those additions are furthering the neutrality of the encyclopaedia, though that would require that the points of view are being presented as points of view rather than facts. To a large extent, the IP area deals with history and history is notorious for the diversity of opinions and interpretations it gives rise to. Therefore, it is unrealistic to expect every editor to be able to give a full, neutral account of the subject area every time they edit Wikipedia. Every editor in the subject area will have limited access to sources and limited time to read those available. I would argue that, as far as neutral or unslanted editing goes, there are culpable failures to do so and inculpable ones. Failure to be totally neutral when adding wholly new material due to limit access to sources would be an inculpable one. What are the culpable failures? These would include: badly misrepresenting sources; removing sourced material for specious reasons; replacing sourced facts or points of view with points of view presented as facts. A question which should be asked in specific relation to Gilabrand is whether the condition for removing the IP-area block imposed on her, that she edits more carefully, has been fulfilled. In that regard I think it's worth considering Nishidani's observation about Gilabrand's lack of use of talkpages. ← ZScarpia 20:44, 9 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by IZAK[edit]Agree that this is about a content dispute that nevertheless and obviously drives the anti-Israel and pro-PLO-POV-pushers crazy -- rather than edit they come to this forum. It seems that since User Gilabrand (talk · contribs) is just working a lot harder than her critics they take the easy way out and try to belittle her hard work and are trying to "cut her off at the knees" with WP:LAWYERING here. So I'll just repeat what I stated earlier but it is just as true: In a nutshell User Gilabrand (talk · contribs) is being subjected to not so subtle WP:WIKIHOUNDING and WP:CYBERBULLYING by editors who express a POV that can be summed up as waving a little flag called "WP:IDONTLIKEIT". The accusations against her are also a violation of WP:NOTCENSORED as well as an abuse of WP:LAWYERING. There are so far few eloquent English speaking Israelis and Jewish editors to do the tough job that Gilabrand does -- to give an alternate explanation and defense to too much blatant pro-PLO, Pro-Arab anti-Israel pushing on WP that is mind-numbing and boring if not outright stupid in its results. Bottom line: This entire debate is too hilarious for words because of course every editor has a personal POV but as responsible editors we adhere to WP:NPOV as best we can. There is no denying that User Gilabrand (talk · contribs) works to present an Israeli perspective but it is within acceptable bounds. It is absurd to accept that "all" editors who edit I-P topics should sound and act as if they are working for Al Jazeera (hey guess what guys, this may come as a shock to you, but: Wikipedia is NOT Al Jazeera !) or as hired PR flacks for the PLO or Hamas or Hizubbullah or the Ayatolas of Iran etc. Editors such as Gilabrand are obviously loyal Israelis expressing the standard Israeli view on these subjects cited by the complaint and they will always exist. Duh!!! Just as they cannot be dismissed or ignored or exterminated in the real world by Israel's enemies, they cannot be dismissed or ignored by punishing good editors on WP who come on board who should be debated but not crushed as this complaint is trying to do. WP cannot be "holier than thou" than the real world by trying to crush any editor who comes along wanting to insert a healthy debate and alternate views that exist out there in the world, that no amount of WP:WIKIHOUNDING and WP:CENSOR will achieve. It only cheapens WP to crush and humiliate Gilabrand rather than discussing points rationally. And it is a cop-out to take this short-cut rather than debate her point by point, that comes across as a "cyber thought control policeman" acting to enforce "UN resolutions" when WP is neither part of the UN nor does it belong to any majority or minority be they Arabs or Jews. WP has to be fair to all because it is an online ENCYCLOPEDIA and it is not a place to wage WP:WAR. Yes, editing WP takes skill and it is a tough job, but to take out the hatched and try to proverbially "kill off" your opponent rather than engaging in proper intellectual debate and work on the technical and policy aspects of WP editing is disgusting to watch, and soon there will only be anti-Israel editors running what is already a pretty well-known debacle and degradation as more and more (like a doomed sinking Titanic of verbal huckstering) WP takes on the default role as a front for the delegitimization of the Israeli POV (yes it's a POV, just as the PLO has POV and Hamas has a POV). Okay, so let's imagine, tomorrow Gilabrand is banned or blocked forever. Does that make WP a better place? Will all the critics be happy talking to themselves now that political correctness and groupthink are enforced? It would be yet another Pyrrhic victory that only silly small-minded people could enjoy. Gilabrand is not an "ogre" -- she is a friend of WP as hard to believe that some here may find that to be, and she can be engaged on equal terms. She is smart and knows her facts, and just because of WP:IDONTLIKEIT it is no reason that she should be taken down. WP needs Gilabrand and more editors like her. IZAK (talk) 15:54, 2 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Ubie the Guru[edit]Take #8 where Gilbrand is reprimanded for removing the allegation that Zarnuqa was a depopulated village. If you go to the article you see that there is no supporting source for that, so in fairness he was correct. The anti-Israel slant in that article is clear. It seems that in Wikipedia editors who are negative to Israel are considered unbiased and those who are positive are considered biased. Considering the massive amounts of disinformation that is out there that is negative toward Israel, it would be a good thing if the information in Wikipedia were seriously scrutinized to see if it is actually true, so that slanders against this small and beleaguered country were not encouraged and spread by Wikipedia. The amount of information/propaganda that is out there that is anti-Israel is analogous to the Nazi propaganda against the Jews in the thirties and forties, and as in the thirties and forties, is taught at Universities. During the Nazi years, anyone who stood up for the Jews against the Nazis was considered a "Jew-lover" and was in threat of joining the Jews in the camps. Wikipedia is getting a reputation of being a propagator of this anti-Israel mindset. Today every bigot in the world has access to media to spread their disinformation and propaganda around. I hope the administrators consider this position before they topic ban yet another hardworking editor whose sin is to see the I-P conflict from an unpopular (but possibly accurate) perspective. Ubie the guru (talk) 16:17, 2 March 2014 (UTC) I decided to take the statement by Arbitrator HJMitchell and see if my thesis held up, by investigating his specific differences that he used to accuse Gilabrand of biased editing. His first difference refers to "removal of material unflattering to Israel."
HJMitchell says:
While I was unable to find several references these I did find are arguably an attempt to be accurate and fair to Israel, instead of only to the Palestinian Arab side in this conflict. As you continually block and ban so-called pro-Israeli editors you will understandably eventually get a field totally dominated by anti-Israel propaganda, thereby literally becoming a part of the problem and adding to the conflict by putting your weight only on one side of the see-saw. Ubie the guru (talk) 05:54, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
A 'pattern' is made up of individual edits. You claim that Gilabrand's 'pattern' is pro-Israel and that this is problematic and seem to be urging a topic ban. To make that determination you must look at individual edits and ask yourself if indeed these edits (eg the ones you used to condemn) are in fact pro-Israeli and if so, are they in fact untrue or worded in some way as to imply some untruth? Could you be seeing this out of your own prejudice, as we all tend to do? Is a pro-Israel bias defacto wrong; and if so is an anti-Israel or pro-Palestinian bias defacto wrong? If so, then the edits of opposing editors should be equally scrutinized for such bias, especially at the time they are attempting to topic ban an editor. To the pro-Israeli editors on Wikipedia it is clear that the anti-Israel editors view AE as a formula to rid Wikipedia of the virus (as they see it) of pro-Israel-bias editing. There is a highly entrenched group of anti-Israel editors on Wikipedia. They are very vocal, bring numerous AE's against both new and older "opponents," and vote administrators in or out based significantly on their expressed viewpoints in this conflict. This is not empty rhetoric on my part. I can provide evidence if required. I hope you will consider this because it is only a matter of simple fairness to both sides. If you ban one perspective or point of view, then Wikipedia will become (as many already say it is) a vehicle for propaganda for the other side only. It is in the tension of both points of view that the facts will come out and the truth will be discernible. Ubie the guru (talk) 20:36, 3 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Shalom11111[edit]Looking at all the selectively picked diffs provided by IRISZOOM, I only found 4 of them to be somewhat problematic. Considering the fact that Gilabrand has made thousands of edits in this very heated topic area, where every little change may look like a huge POV-attempt, in my judgement I actually find his/her edits rather constructive, even in most of the examples provided by IRISZOOM here, who is a user I'll not elaborate on now. So while he/she is evidently supportive of the so called Israeli narrative, I think it's absurd to expect perfection from such editor, and Sepsis definitely doesn't have a case for a topic-ban on Gilabrand. Regarding a few comments raised above: Sepsis, I think you should have been referring to yourself as well when you said "AE has given up on stopping such editors", because as previous cases have shown, your edits are extremely POV-pushing with regards to the I / P area. Alf.laylah.wa.laylah, your example is ironically bad. An article cannot be named "List of Palestinians assassinated by the Mossad" if it hasn't been absolutely proven that these people have been assassinated by the Mossad. You said "Most items on the list are sourced". Really? So if most 'items' are sourced (by some independent organizations/websites), that entitles all Palestinians listed there to be considered as people assassinated by the Mossad? Well, not only was Gilabrand's edit okay, it was necessary. Any objective editor would agree that the article should indeed be renamed. See this article for example. And then read Wikipedia's guidelines again, please. Nevertheless, we must make sure Gilabrand and other editors for this matter are more cautious and careful with their edits, and therefore I think a warning of some kind or even a short block should be implemented, as admins shall decide, in order to deter this editor and other editors (well, maybe even including me) from future possible edits that may violate the Wikipedia's neutral-editing rules. -Shalom11111 (talk) 22:04, 3 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Nishidani[edit]Well I've tried to stay out of this, - one gets the impression that any comment in an AE action is read tendentially in terms of where the editors are coming from, and thus, since all are putatively POV-pushing partisans in administrative eyes, no contributor's comment is evaluated as anything other than a power-game. That's pretty depressing. I'd much prefer that any of us, whoever, might be dealt with harshly according to severe rules of conduct. As it is, bad editors cause time-consuming grief: one has to trail them esp if hyperactive and 'mop up'. Two administrative remarks are just, I think, inappropriate.
I.e. At a minimalist readng, Gilabrand can do what a significant number of editors from both sides refrain from doing, because their reading of what policy allows one to do with articles that are reliably sourced is restrictive. More largely, and operationally, she alone has been given a free pass to mess up normative editing procedures in the I/P area by wilful removal of RS, pro-national rewriting, misleading edit summaries, suppression of facts,etc.
For the record here's my reading of the first 5 diffs.
Edit summary = (ce; add)
As
Edit summary ‘Ce according to source’-
Comment by Roger Davies[edit]I've formed no opinion on the actual editing here but I am concerned about an alleged accommodation to allow "slanted" editing. How does this square with core policy where it states: [NPOV] is nonnegotiable and all editors and articles must follow it? Roger Davies talk 17:36, 5 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Bukrafil[edit]So much hot air to wade through here. More than the human brain can process. I just wanted to say that I come across this editor's work from time and time, and can only laud it. Some of the best work on Wikipedia, in my opinion. I looked at some of the complaints above and find it hard to believe how the editing of an excellent contributor is being dragged through the mud. Every article he has touched (that I have seen) has been greatly improved - and usually much expanded - while reducing what was often extremely shrill and blatant propagandistic writing. Some pages here are absolutely shameful, and downright embarrassing for something that calls itself an "encyclopedia." (Personal attack removed) Based on all the squawking and posturing above, if Wikipedia wants to scare off new editors or make others quit in disgust, it is doing a great job.--Bukrafil (talk) 08:21, 6 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Brewcrewer[edit]Banning Gila would be a biased and wrong decision. Anyone with a lot of time on their hands can comb through the edits of myself and most if not all of the commentators here and selectively put together a report that would similarly conclude that the editor edits in a POV fashion. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 17:18, 7 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Sean.hoyland[edit]This discussion covers many interesting issues, but it's probably quite a good illustration of a bit of an uncoordinated and incoherent approach to dealing with issues that are fairly commonplace in ARBPIA. I don't normally find myself agreeing with Brewcrewer, but I tend to agree that "Anyone with a lot of time on their hands can comb through the edits of [many editors in ARBPIA] and selectively put together a report that would similarly conclude that the editor edits in a POV fashion". People usually can't be bothered to do that though and AE doesn't have a great record, in my view, when it comes to reviewing large volumes of evidence and acting on it. It's tedious to compile and review it and it's easy to not think about potential sampling issues. 1RR has been quite effective at getting editors to follow the rules, presumably partly because editors know that they will be blocked if they break the rules. It's fairly quick and easy to compile the evidence, file a report and it's processed quickly, usually without complicated discussions. I wonder what would happen if a similar approach were used for other policy/guideline violations in ARBPIA, like NPOV violations, source misrepresentation, biased source sampling, using poor quality sources/non-RS etc e.g. make 3 violations in an article and you are banned from the article or blocked for a week. In many cases, it's not very difficult to identify pretty unambiguous examples of these kind of violations. If people knew that a small number of policy/guideline violations in an article could trigger sanctions, perhaps they would be more careful. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:19, 7 March 2014 (UTC) Before this request is closed I hope Gila is given and takes the opportunity to comment, especially with respect to the SPI results. Perhaps WP:FAMILY and the extent to which it has been followed is relevant. If so, that may complicate matters given that this AE report (and the SPI) should really be about one person. Sean.hoyland - talk 15:37, 10 March 2014 (UTC) @IRISZOOM, yes, I saw that and the use of a hatpin in that response is not unexpected. But it doesn't address the AE report or the SPI findings. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:20, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Just to clear up a point as my view seems to have been misunderstood, I fully support editors being blocked for "POV-editing" as long as it is very clear to editors and admins alike what that means in concrete terms. It needs to be as easy to compile the evidence, report and review the evidence of "POV-editing" as it is for 1RR violations and all editors should know that if they do something n times they will be blocked for a while or article banned. Topic banning long term editors whose editing exhibits some kind of systemic bias in ARBPIA doesn't work, or at least it hasn't in many cases. And since topic bans are essentially unenforceable in practice (or at least only enforceable at a high cost which is usually not paid by those who impose them), wouldn't it be better to make it clear, before applying any sanction, what a person needs to do to return to the topic area and ask people to explicitly confirm that they are actually going to comply with a topic ban and not sock ? Topic bans just don't seem to have been very effective in ARBPIA over the years, there is a widespread myth that systemically biased editing is okay, it will get fixed by magic pixies, and there seems to be too much inertia when it comes to reporting and dealing with it. The discretionary sanctions should make people better editors so that the ARBPIA part of the encyclopedia can improve. It's worked with edit warring via the 1RR restrictions. Perhaps it can work with other kinds of constraints that are easy to understand and enforce. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:05, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Tritomex[edit](Personal attack removed) Gilabrand who is a highly skilled, neutral editor in my opinion will be overpowered by repeated group reporting. I will be honest and I will say what I see. The lack of equal measure for applying sanctions in context of Arab/Israeli conflict will turn away all editors who believe in balanced and neutral editing.--Tritomex (talk) 00:25, 9 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by Bus stop[edit]Same bullshit, different day. I think Izak, several posts up, said it well when he suggested: this is not Al Jazeera. We are discussing an editor representing an eminently defensible position. Sources support material presented, or even advanced, or even promoted, by editor Gilabrand. (Let me point out that in my humble opinion sources are the lifeblood of Wikipedia.) WP:TALK pages exist for reaching editorial agreement for the wording found in articles. I perceive this as an effort to curtail an editor's full participation in the writing of articles and an effort to curtail that editor's participation in the discussions that lead to the wording that is ultimately decided upon for inclusion in our articles. We diminish the encyclopedia when we remove good editors from the editorial processes. Final wording to be found in articles should be hammered out by editors primarily on article WP:TALK pages with recourse to our several dispute resolution processes if necessary. We should stop pretending that we are discussing a wayward editor or one who does not understand Wikipedia's commitment to the neutral point of view. But editors disagree. This is not the ideal venue for resolving editorial disagreements. Bus stop (talk) 12:03, 9 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by Epeefleche[edit]Agree with the statement of Sean.Hoyland above, agreeing (as he points out, surprisingly) with Brewcrewer. When editors in this area on both sides of the aisle agree, that's something I take notice of, and think the closer should take notice of as well. Epeefleche (talk) 02:58, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Question by AgadaUrbanit[edit]Could administrators reflect of the following question before the closure? I guess the question relates to proper scrutiny and due diligence. AgadaUrbanit (talk) 16:54, 10 March 2014 (UTC) Result concerning Gilabrand[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. This complaint is excessively long (2700 words) and contains, at first glance, diffs of edits that appear to reflect content disputes. The arbitration process cannot adress good faith disagreements about content. The request should be cut down to the required size (500 words) and be limited to diffs that clearly show the violation of a Wikipedia conduct rule, such as vandalism, edit-warring, personal attacks or (excessively) tendentious editing. If that is not promptly done, the complaint may be dismissed out of hand. Gilabrand should not feel obliged to respond to all of this overlong complaint. Sandstein 20:41, 27 February 2014 (UTC)
My first thoughts reading the SPI report are that the block should be at least 6 months (maybe 12), and that any return to editing should be accompanied by the topic ban discussed above and an absolute 1 account restriction. I want to hear the thoughts of other admins, particularly George and Harry, first though. Thryduulf (talk) 15:05, 10 March 2014 (UTC)
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Arbitration enforcement action appeal by TheShadowCrow
[edit]| Appeal declined. TheShadowCrow may appeal again to WP:AE after 6 months as per his existing restrictions on appeals of his bans--Cailil talk 11:37, 9 March 2014 (UTC) |
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| The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
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Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action.
Statement by TheShadowCrow[edit]I would like to appeal an indefinite AA2 ban and all other Admin-custom bans that resulted from it, such as Sandstein's ban that I can only appeal once every six months. This ban has existed for about a year and a half now and I think it's time to finally take it off. I haven't edited an article specifically about AA conflicts since October 2012 following an edit war on an AA page, which I apologize for, and I have not had any conflict of any kind for what will be 7 months next week. But a lot of recent issue with it is if I should have a sports exemption or not (which I was given by original imposer CT Cooper but got taken away on a whim), so I don't think it's serving an original purpose anymore. I'd say there has definitely been enough time to give me another chance. In the meantime I have contributed a lot on the article Joel Osteen in particular and resolved a lot of change issues peacefully with another editor on the talk page, so I think this proves I can edit in a constructive manner and should have the opportunity to for AA2 articles again. I promise I will continue to resolve edit issues on the talk page and not in edit conflicts or anything in the future. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 03:51, 28 February 2014 (UTC)
User:CT Cooper User:EdJohnston User:Penwhale I have done everything I was asked to. I waited a long period of time, I contributed to other articles, and I demonstrated the ability to discuss on talk pages with other editors, but in the end it's still not enough to remove a long since redundant ban, and it's more obvious than it was 6 months ago that majority of the admins here plan to routinely ignore reason every 6 months until I give up. I already forced myself to contribute with others to an article I didn't care about to impress them and they completely ignore it. The result mentions If you would voluntarily set some conditions if the topic-ban is removed then it may be easier to convince me. Can I at least have my sport exemption back then? There is at least one other editor banned from AA2 with it. Would it be fair if I go back to the old rules and if all is well after 6 months discuss removing the entire ban again? I have not been involved with anything Armenia-Azerbaijan related in almost two years. Please let me have the opportunity to prove myself in noncontroversial articles I care about. --TheShadowCrow (talk) 17:54, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
Statement by EdJohnston[edit]
Statement by Sandstein[edit]I'm reproducing the entries in the WP:ARBAA2 log that pertain to TheShadowCrow:
In view of this and TheShadowCrow's very long block log, I don't anticipate anything but more trouble if any sanctions are lifted, and would decline the appeal. (To the extent it matters, I consider myself uninvolved for the purposes of this appeal, except to the extent that TheShadowCrow also appeals my admin actions, which, it appears from the above, consist only of limiting the frequency of appeals against the other sanctions.) Sandstein 17:59, 28 February 2014 (UTC) Statement by Bbb23[edit]I no longer know whether I'm involved when it comes to TSC, so I'll err on the side of caution and post here. TSC's appeal should be rejected. He has never done anything to demonstrate that he is capable of editing responsibly since being banned. Over and over he asks for the ban to be lifted, promising to be better, but expecting others to take him at his word despite being told repeatedly that he must first edit outside of his topic area in a collaborative and constructive fashion. Nor does he respond well to such rejections, engaging in wikilawyering and unfounded accusations against those who do not agree with him. If he expended even half of the energy he spends on attempting to have the ban lifted on improving the project, he might find things would go better. This is a pretty straightforward case.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:38, 2 March 2014 (UTC) I'll add more "concrete" data, although some has already been provided. From September 2013 until now, TSC has edited six articles. They have edited two article talk pages. The majority of his edits have been to Joel Osteen, both the article and the talk page. He seemed to be combative in November of last year but has edited more constructively (that's based on a cursory inspection) this year. It's an improvement, I think, over previous behavior, but not a particularly compelling record for six months. I understand if real life interferes with his ability to edit, but then it shouldn't matter that much to him if he can't edit the articles he wants to edit because he doesn't have that much time here anyway. Unfortunately, the burden is on him to demonstrate convincingly that the ban should be lifted.--Bbb23 (talk) 21:44, 2 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by CT Cooper[edit]I'm commenting here due to my previous extended involvement with TSC, though since July 2013 other admins have taken over the task of supervising TSC due to myself being inactive on Wikipedia. However, I have still kept a general eye on what has been going on and TSC has sometimes contacted me on my talk page to express frustration with the sanctions. I have advised TSC in the past that the best way to get the sanctions lifted was to prove himself in other areas, which hasn't happened, though I acknowledge that TSC has been busy with college. Despite the many bumps in the road I do think TSC has become a more constructive editor and understands better why some of his past behaviour was unacceptable – particularly when compared to when the sanctions were first imposed in July 2012. However, there are still issues which have already been highlighted by other users here, particularly when it comes to collaborating with other editors in contentious areas. It is clear that TSC has strong views on issues relating to Armenia-Azerbaijan and I think he should examine whether it would ever be appropriate for him to edit in those topic areas extensively, regardless of whether or not he is allowed to do so. My overall view at this time is that I cannot say confidentially that if the sanctions were lifted, there wouldn't be problems, so I cannot recommend that they be lifted at this time. However, I remain open minded to narrowing them if the case can be made for that. CT Cooper · talk 16:17, 2 March 2014 (UTC) @TheShadowCrow: Well lets look at this from an admin point-of-view shall we, if myself or other admins recommend the sanctions are lifted, and then you cause a huge amount of trouble in the Armenia-Azerbaijan area, then said admins will at best get a heavy trout slapping, at worst a heavy whale slapping. This is as much about building trust than anything else, and continuing to push this idea that there is a great admin conspiracy against you, particularly when I have told you not to do so, does not help matters. Nor does emotional rhetoric about how we should give you an indefinite block. If you are unhappy about how things are, you are ultimately free to leave the project, or you can stay and edit any topic area except Armenia-Azerbaijan topics. These sanctions are hardly a terrible burden to bear. Yes you were told to go and edit other article areas, and yes you have done so, however the Joel Osteen case is not exactly a gleaming example – your behaviour there was better than it has been before, but it was hardly commendable. You did listen to the warming that was given, but why was such a warning necessary in the first place? The concept that we discuss things on the talk page rather than engage edit warring should be one of the first things a new editor learns. You should have known better. It also appears you still don't know what vandalism is, despite having been told multiple times. Furthermore, while the conversation on the talk page was ultimately productive, some remarks you made, particularly your opening comment, were unhelpfully antagonistic in places – it was fortunate that other editors choose only to respond to the substance. I notice you seem to very desperate for these sanctions to be lifted and your comments indicate you have few other interests. That in itself, worries me. My instinct tells me that you will behave differently when editing Armenia-Azerbaijan articles in which you are interested in and have strong views over, against those you don't care much about at all. I also notice that whenever I get onto whether it is appropriate for you to edit Armenia-Azerbaijan article, you dodge the issue. I have to ask myself why that is? Are your motives here that of an activist or that of an encyclopediaist? We could with me more of the latter, not of the former. Perhaps it would be helpful if you shared with us why you are so keen for these sanctions to be lifted. What articles do you want to edit and what improvements do you want to make? You asked for specific goals; I think that's a good idea. As a start I would like you see you substantially improve at least one article with some contentious content, by moving it up at least one grade on the assessment scale and resolving any disagreements on the talk page, while not receiving any justifiable complaints of misconduct from other editors. The more articles you cover, the more improvements you make, and less complaints you receive, the more likely the sanctions will be lifted. I accept six months is a long time, so I would support allowing another review in three months if we can agree on specific goals. CT Cooper · talk 23:02, 2 March 2014 (UTC) On the canvassing issue, I was also contacted about this appeal by The Shadow Crow. However, the use of my username meant I had already been alerted to this discussion via the notifications system, and I was already planning to comment either today or tomorrow. On this comment, I can see that it wasn't neutral but I don't see it as any more than a technical breach of WP:CANVASS, since he was after all, contacting an admin that blocked him. It most certainly isn't grounds, on its own, to dismiss the appeal and to make TheShadowCrow wait another six months – a mild warning on WP:CANVASS will be sufficient. CT Cooper · talk 23:18, 2 March 2014 (UTC) @Cailil: I did say it was canvassing, but I also said that dismissing the appeal purely on those grounds in general wasn't a good idea; a warning was sufficient, and I stand by that. I'm familiar with TSC's history and I did indeed have to let other admins take over supervising TSC as I was no longer able to on my own for reasons which I'm not getting into here, but I will make clear that were completely unrelated to anything that happened with TSC. Even before I handed things over, I had already decided that I wasn't going to lift the ban unilaterally due to the situation's complexity and the fact that I wasn't the original ban imposer – that being The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk · contribs). I have at no point in this discussion deviated from that position. I believe my positions on this issue has been fair, and have and will express my opinions on this subject independent of anyone else, including TSC and yourself. With the greatest of respect, I am not stupid and I know what TSC was trying to do when he was suddenly friendly to me as soon as other admins took over supervising the sanctions. However, if we're only going to have an appeal every six months, then I believe it should be done properly and it should end when it's ready to end, not before. I've been through it already, but since this issue seems to be lingering, the "sports exception" was just me attempting to clarify my interpretation of the ban, which I still believe was reasonable. However, at least a plurality of admins at the time interpreted the ban to have a wider scope than I had intended, and that's when the problems really started, as different admins were on different wavelengths. My mistake was not to make absolutely clear what I thought was imposing on TSC when I did so. I was also arguably wrong not to stand-up for my own positions and actions on the issue, but at the time I simply wasn't in a state to have a big argument over it, nor did I think this would help TSC become a productive editor. I stand by my recommendation for TSC to be given general goals on how to get the sanctions lifted. Simply telling him every six months "it's not good enough" isn't fair, as NE Ent has rightly pointed out. I don't think issues around him thinking his entitled to have the ban lifted will be a serious problem if we made clear that the edits he makes are subject to our review and judgement before any sanctions are lifted or changed. I also stand by my open minded position on reducing the length between appeals to three months, if specific goals are given. Six months seems a long time to me and it being the "standard length" does not prevent exceptions. Unfortunately for personal reasons and due to other Wikimedia related demands on my shoulders, I cannot give constant supervision to TSC, but I will advise him when he asks for it and comment in appeals, due to my past involvement. @TheShadowCrow: The problem with the argument your making there is the reason you haven't caused trouble in the AA topic area for a while is because of the sanctions, so turning it into an argument for lifting them is analogous to arguing that because there hasn't been any recent bank robberies in a town for a while, the law against bank robberies should be repealed. Having passion doesn't make you any more of less trustworthy, as it's what your passion drives you to do that matters. To be clear on the activist vs. encyclopediast issue, I'm not saying that you can't have views on topics that you edit, as that's often unavoidable. The real issue is whether you let those views impact on your judgement. In some of your past edits, it's clear that it did. On Joel Osteen, yes I'm afraid in forums such as this people will tend to focus on the negatives, which is why you need to minimise them. I do count multiple reverts by you in the history, so you were edit warring. I think it would be best if you learnt the lessons and put it behind you. It's good to hear that you intend to be more mindful on what AA areas you intend to edit, but just your reassurances won't cut it with me I'm afraid, and regardless of what I think, there is very little chance that a consensus will develop to repeal the AA ban at this time. Furthermore, I can't see a consensus developing to either narrow the sanctions or increase the allowed frequencies of appeals. The best that can be aimed for here will probably be some goals or similar to work for next time round. CT Cooper · talk 22:25, 6 March 2014 (UTC) @Cailil: There is no need for apologies, but thanks anyway. I see what you mean on the stick issue, but I think he'll claim a entitlement to have the ban lifted regardless of whether or not we set general goals. I'm also coming to the conclusion that this appeal is running out of steam and that other admins have no interest in changing the sanctions, so I now agree that there's little point continuing on this path, unless some other admins start speaking-up. I've got my own problems at the moment to sort out, and I would rather not take back primary responsibility for the sanctions, but it looks like I'm the only person in a good position to do so at this time. The saying "if you want something done, do it yourself" comes to mind and it is clear that TSC could do with my services, so I will talk to him on his talk page as soon as this appeal closes on a way forward. @TheShadowCrow: I think your misreading what I'm saying in a number of ways. Please read my comments carefully before replying, preferably multiple times. I'm not saying that your lack of edits to AA topics should be counted against you, that would be silly. What I am saying though is the mere lack of edits to that topic area is not grounds to lift the sanctions, since it could also indicate that they are working. Ironically though, I have little objection to your analogy. In many countries these days prisoners have to serve an indefinite sentence until they can demonstrate while in prison that they are safe for release. Similarly, you will have to demonstrate while under topic ban that you can be trusted to edit AA articles. I'm not saying that's easy. This discussion with you over edit warring seems be very much like the one we had over vandalism, and shows you still have a problem with accepting and understanding policy properly. There is indeed no policy explicitly against reverting other's edits, but reverting other users multiple times when you know that there is disagreement with your edits is edit warring, even if the three revert rule isn't technically violated. Policy is very clear that there is no entitlement to revert three times. It's called the bold, revert, discuss cycle not the bold revert revert revert discuss cycle for a good reason. You should have taken it to the talk page after the first revert, not later. On your second paragraph, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I've not backtracked on my views regarding the gaps between appeals and I have neither directly argued for or against giving you a proper "sports exemption" – I've simply explained the history behind the issue. The only other things I said was that it was unlikely the topic ban would be lifted or narrowed at the present time, regardless of my views on the subject. Given that no other admins seem interested in making changes to any of the sanctions and noting that this appeal seems to be running out of steam, that seems even more true now than it was yesterday. I'm afraid I'm not backtracking on my position that I will not make unilateral changes to the ban. I didn't ask you to get any articles to good article status, my goal was just to simply improve one or more articles by one assessment grade. I didn't "promise" specific goals, but I did give my support to the idea. Regardless, it looks like we're going to have to hash this out on your talk page. I will try to put you on the right path for another appeal in six months, presuming you're still happy to make some improvements to some non-AA topics. If you're ready to have the sanctions lifted before then, I will give my support to an appeal directly to the Arbitration Committee. CT Cooper · talk 19:48, 7 March 2014 (UTC) @TheShadowCrow: I have told you very clearly that I am not a position to lift the sanctions. I cannot lift or modify the ban on editing AA topics unilaterally as the issue has become too complicated and another admin would likely re-instate any ban I remove. Furthermore, no circumstances could I unilaterally overturn Sandstein's restriction on appeals – it is strictly forbidden to reverse an admin's arbitration action without clear community consensus or Arbitration Committee approval. The reality, whether your accept it or not, is that you are indefinitely banned from editing AA articles. Indefinite means just that – the ban stays until it is ready to be lifted, whether that be in six months, six years, or never. There is no such thing as a right or entitlement to having the ban lifted; in fact there is no right or entitlement to editing Wikipedia at all. That is a privileged that can be withdrawn or restricted as the community sees fit. It's unfortunate that in this discussion old problems have come back to the surface. One seems to be a tendency by you to read people's comments, particularly mine, in a way which tells you what you want to hear rather than what is actually said. I may have been less harsh to you on this forum than some other admins, but that never meant I was going to fight to the end to have the sanctions lifted or modified. Yes, I do remember saying "I accept six months is a long time, so I would support allowing another review in three months if we can agree on specific goals." and I know there is nothing I have said since which is inconsistent with that statement. One can support reducing the length between appeals while at the same time accepting pragmatic reality of the situation, which is that it will only happen if others agree, which they don't at the moment. Also note that by "we", I meant yourself, myself, and admins that have commented. Since we have not come to an agreement on specific goals, that comment is irrelevant. I'm really not interested in emotional rhetoric from you over how you're apparently under a "technical indef block" and how you just can't handle being under the sanctions for another six months. At the end of the day TSC, when push comes to shove, you brought these sanctions on yourself and they're your problem, not mine. I've offered to give up my time to give you some support to improve your chances on another appeal in six months, which will involve you making improvements to non-AA articles. I don't accept your interpretation of Sandstein's restriction on appealing, and I can see no problem in us discussing the issue, making goals e.t.c. If you're not interested, fine. If you want to leave the project, fine. I'm not going to loose sleep over the issue, but if you change your mind, my talk page will remain open. CT Cooper · talk 13:52, 8 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by NE Ent[edit]Wow. Tough crowd. So what it comes down to is due to a solitary screw-up in just under six months The Shadow Crow must remain sanctioned? Did you notice how they didn't whine and wikilawyer after the warning at User_talk:TheShadowCrow#Joel_Osteen. Did you see how they worked a making a GA (which I guess is supposed to be important around here), and used a sandbox to get their edits in place before moving in mainspace? Well, if you're going to be setting hoops they have to jump through, ya'll could at least have the decency to be a little more concrete. How many drama free mainspace edits, or many articles do you want them to work on before the next appeal? Anything else? GA? FA? NE Ent 18:47, 2 March 2014 (UTC)
P.S. Pinging the admin who blocked you is canvassing now? That's a reach ... I'm certainly not seeing the polite note asking TSC to stop the guideline suggest how to respond. NE Ent 22:25, 2 March 2014 (UTC) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by TheShadowCrow[edit]Result of the appeal by TheShadowCrow[edit]
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Interfase
[edit]| Clarified that the topic ban is still in place until Interfase is formally notified otherwise on their talk page. Taking no further enforcement action as in good faith this is a simple mistake. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:43, 10 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Interfase[edit]
History of sanctions:
User:Interfase has been routinely violating his topic ban from AA2 largely construed . He has never admitted his misdeeds because of which he was banned, and never expressed any remorse for any misconduct in the past or present all the while continuing making most controversial edits in AA2's most controversial articles, such as Black January and Khojaly Massacre Memorial in Berlin.
Actually, there is no evidence that anybody has "vacated" Interfase's topic ban. Your topic ban is still in place. It looks like that HJ Mitchell was simply entertaining this idea, in a questions-and-replies session, as a theoretical possibility. That's it. But the thing is that even before HJ Mitchell was playing with this idea, Interfase had been violating the ban already. And vacating Interfase's topic ban would therefore be a reward for not taking the topic ban seriously. Hablabar (talk) 13:59, 8 March 2014 (UTC) @HJ Mitchell: With all due respect to your privileges as a sysop, it should be noted that the principle of fairness is a cornerstone principle in AE. User:NovaSkola, for instance, was blocked for violating his AA2 topic ban just recently. Why should Interfase be spared? Furthermore, in your own announcement of Interfase's topic ban one can read that Interfase is "indefinitely topic-banned from Armenia/Azerbaijan topics, including related conflicts for gross incivility, edit-warring, and repeatedly referring to good-faith edits as vandalism." Vacating Interfase from topic ban was not a well thought out idea, especially vacating him by skipping the formal appeal process. There are no precedents that anyone sanctioned within the AA2 area for "gross incivility and edit-warring" has ever been vacated from topic ban, with or without an appeal. Please take this into account. Thank you very much for your kind attention. Hablabar (talk) 19:29, 9 March 2014 (UTC) Discussion concerning Interfase[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Interfase[edit]Actually HJ Mitchell vacated the topic ban. Thus, I don't see in my edits any violations. --Interfase (talk) 08:09, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
I thought that topic ban was lifted by Mitchell. But, OK. It was misunderstanding. Actually I agree with the restrictions by HJ Mitchell in lieu of topic ban. --Interfase (talk) 12:06, 9 March 2014 (UTC) It should be noted that according to clarifications the topic ban doesn't cover Azerbaijan topics in general—just topics related to the conflict with Armenia and similar geopolitical/ethnic disputes. So this my edits stated by Hablabar aren't violations. About others I thought that topic ban was vacated according to this. But as HJ Mitchell said after closing of this issue I will write on his talk page that I agree with his restrictions in lieu of the topic ban. --Interfase (talk) 15:12, 9 March 2014 (UTC) Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Interfase[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. This should be addressed by HJ Mitchell, who is the admin who issued the ban, and who has been in communication with Interfase about this. Sandstein 09:02, 8 March 2014 (UTC)
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CammieD
[edit]| This is not an arbitration enforcement request. No case that is to be enforced is identified. See WP:SPI or generally WP:DR for other options. Sandstein 09:00, 8 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning CammieD[edit]
Aggressive single-subject editing and **posting of private home addresses on talk/discussion pages** of the subject of the Rachel Marsden Wikipedia article (who is a living person). Sockpuppet and other related IP addresses are believed to belong to a user named (Redacted) who resides in (Redacted), and who has aggressively targeted and defamed the subject on other online forums. Sockpuppets of the CammieD include IP: 70.94.98.13 and User:Ellie_Dahl (usercheck and sockpuppet check has also been requested on appropriate page)
Discussion concerning CammieD[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by CammieD[edit]Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning CammieD[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )
[edit]| Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) blocked for one month and created article deleted. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:55, 10 March 2014 (UTC) |
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This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )[edit]
Discussion concerning Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )[edit]Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Statement by Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )[edit]Statement by ColonelHenry[edit]
Statement by (username)[edit]Result concerning Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )[edit]This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.
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