"The stars definitely had to align in a very specific way..."

The day has come. At last, I have a new fandom.

Remember just last month when I told Emily Gould in New York Magazine’s Dinner Party newsletter what I need from a fandom or ship to get me interested?

I have certain things that I want out of a show that are going to make me want to write and want to engage with the fandom. [...] I like it when they don’t kiss on the show and I can make them kiss in my writing. Also – this is a very me thing – in Heated Rivalry, they’re beautiful, hot young men, great to look at on the screen. For me, I like to write about, how shall I say, weirder, crustier, more horrible individuals. These [Heated Rivalry] guys are pretty toned, and I need some decrepitude, maybe. They need to be weirder. They need to be in some horrible fantasy situation or trapped in a dungeon. I could trap them in a dungeon somewhere, but the thought of doing that does not personally excite me.

Prophetic words from someone who came home from Antarctica and immediately became deeply, irrevocably obsessed with the two weird, crusty, codependent dudes from Nirvanna the Band the Show and its associated movie:

I am sure you will be finding out from me sooner rather than later what it is about these dweeby Canadians that has captivated me so intensely, but it’s not about them today.

I wanted to turn the tables and talk to Emily about fandom, especially because our experiences are so different: me, a lifelong fan and participant and promoter in all things fan culture, and her, discovering the joy of fanfiction for the first time via Heated Rivalry as an elder millennial with a career and family.

The latter perspective is incredibly important for anyone interested in fan history, because during the 20th century it was a far more common way to enter fandom than the alternative. Star Trek fandom and the fanfiction/fanzine side of it in particular was powered by a collective dynamo of professional adult women. Us fangirls from childhood would not have Heated Rivalry to enjoy now without the 40-something librarians, secretaries, scientists, and administrators of the midcentury who built up, with great effort, the cultural infrastructure of media fandom.

I feel like timing is so important when you get into a fandom. Why do you think that Heated Rivalry found you now? Why were you at this moment in your life, having never been in a fandom like this before, ready to accept and dive into something like this?

It was really not on my radar. But I did have sort of like a blank space... The previous two things that I’d been really into [were] The Gilded Age, specifically Morgan Spector as Train Daddy, and then after that tapered off, I got really into the Broadway musical Chess.

I was at my parents’ house because it was after Thanksgiving. My kids and [husband] Keith left to go home to New York, and then I stayed at my parents’ house for an additional day, and then the next morning I went to Baltimore and then I spent the next three or four days by myself in Baltimore to work on my book that I’m trying to write.

And when I go to Baltimore, I’m completely alone, no domestic responsibilities. I hadn’t taken the time off work, but basically all I had to do was my job and I had no other obligations, which is very unusual in my life. So that was kind of perfect. So basically as soon as Keith and the kids got in the car to leave, I locked myself in the guest bedroom at my parents’ house and hit play.

And like 10 or maybe 12 minutes in, I hit pause and tweeted, “This is my new personality. You were all right.” And I had no idea how true that would turn out to be. But I think I was immunocompromised to catch the disease in a couple of ways. One, I mean, both of them relate to my husband—he is Russian, and also a hockey player.

What were you into as a teen? Does it relate to what you’re into now? Do you obsess over things the same way, is Heated Rivalry different than how you’ve gone about your obsessions in the past?

I don’t think I’ve ever been a part of like a big fandom before in part because—I’m 44, the oldest millennial, but I’m just Gen-X-coded enough that it’s deeply ingrained in me that if a lot of people like something, then it must not be that cool and you have to at least pretend not to like it, which is so stupid.

And it’s actually kept me from publicly claiming things that I actually have really liked in the past because I felt like I couldn’t like them, which, yeah, I know that sounds very silly, but I was just pretentious in that way.

I don’t think I actively shipped any pairing from pop culture, but there were definitely always actors or performers that I found really hot and compelling, because I’m human.

What are some of the things that has surprised you about this world that exists and has existed that you’re only discovering now—whether that’s like social or technological, or things that surprise you about etiquette or social mores within that subculture?

I think I was sort of ambiently aware that it existed, and I think I’ve definitely been moving away from snobbery for a while now. Especially just from having worked in publishing: understanding that genre categories are more about marketing than about anything to do with quality.

But to get back to your actual question, I think it was really important to find some mutuals that I could share this with. That’s always my tendency, whenever I feel enthusiastic about anything, like a book or a TV show. I just want to be able to share it with someone and talk to them about it, and I guess also be evangelical about it.

I’m a big recommender of things, but I’m also a big locus for other people’s recommendations. I rely on having a lot of people in my life who have really good taste be constantly recommending things to me. I think of myself as like a hub and then there are all these little spokes going out from me.

So starting a group chat with like a couple of people who were just as obsessed was step one, and that’s been amazing.

And we just like chit-chat all day about everything, and we’re all around the same age, so that’s cool, but we also send links back and forth. The other thing that’s nice is that even though all of us have like slightly different tastes, I think there are some things that we agree on, that we have sort of learned our hard limits.

Do the other members of this chat have more experience in fandoms as than you, or is this all your first time?

Yeah. One of them was like really into Matty Healy and the other one of them was really, really into One Direction. So this is not their first rodeo.

How have you enjoyed making new fandom friends?

Oh, it’s the best. It’s the best. It’s so awesome. It’s like a pretty intimate level to be connecting on, so it definitely cuts through a lot of the sort of—getting to know you, like lore drops—that need to happen.

Do you feel like you wish you had entered into this subculture earlier, or do you think that it found you at the right time? Is there a show that you watched when you were younger that you wish that you had gotten involved in the fandom for?

I’ve thought about that and I thought of like going back and seeing if there was good fic for various shows, but I don’t think I’ve ever had this relationship with a show before.

There are books that I’ve reread a thousand times—who knows, maybe there’s fic, but the books are so good that I don’t think I would really want to read fic [for them].

I don’t want to sound like everything happens for a reason or some shit, it seems like this was the right time for me for this. The stars definitely had to align in a very specific way for me to have the time, the inclination.

The one sort of like, “Oh, I sort of wish I had realized that this existed earlier” feeling that I have is like: I wish there were some alternate universe in which I had some marketable skill other than writing. Because how great would it be to have writing be this purely uncommercial thing in your life that you just do because you love it, and all of the critical reception that you get is just like—we love you, we love you more, more, more!—which has not been my experience.

Do you think that there are still a lot of prejudices in the media industry against enthusiasm and obsession, and how are you dealing with that?

I mean, I just have to be really careful not to talk to anyone who is not going to be interested in it about it because it’s like, why would they be interested in? It’s kind of like hearing about someone’s dream.

I think as a writer and specifically as a magazine features writer, I’m encouraged to have enthusiasms and obsessions so that I can then turn it into content somehow and then get it out of my system and move on to the next thing.

[But] I don’t want to get this out of my system and move on to the next thing. And I also don’t want to professionalize it. I’ve actually never felt less enthusiastic about the whole thing than during that week that the cover story came out and for like three days out of that week, I ran stuff that was related to it and it was just like, I hated the feeling.

I was really interested in everything that I was writing about, but professionalizing it made it less fun. And thinking about it analytically also was like it was not conducive to being in it. I guess it’s nice that I have a thing that isn’t for work—which is not usually how I operate, and that’s not great, actually.

What’s been your elevator pitch for either Heated Rivalry in specific or the act of joining or maybe rejoining fandom as an adult?

If I know someone who I know has gotten obsessed with the show and I know that they’re like a reader or writer or both, I’m like, “Have you delved into the fanfic yet? “And if they’re like, “Yeah, I don’t think that’s really for me.” I’m like, “Forget I even mentioned it!” But if they’re like, “ Oh, should I?” I’m like, “Yes, and here’s a good place to start.”

For you, obviously the reading element of it has been a great joy. Have you delved into commenting or even writing yet? Is that on the table for you?

Oh, commenting, definitely. Writing, I guess… I think if I had a really good idea, I would do it, but I just haven’t really. There are a lot of people out there who are just amazing me with their ingenuity on the regular, and I just haven’t really had ... I’ve joked around with my group chat about various ideas, but I don’t think any of us has really been serious about fleshing it out. If I was going to do it, I think I would want to do it collaboratively.

Why do you think Heated Rivalry is the thing that has gotten so many people into fandom for the first time?

Oh. I mean, I think just because everything is so bad right now. I mean, there are a million good answers to this question. I think when I’ve asked people this question, something that’s come up a bit is feeling like it gave us permission to like men. And that one also works for me.