A Few Minutes With Oli

As a member of the MLB Fan Council, I’ve gotten adjusted to Zoom calls with folks in baseball. The Council has convened to hear from a number of different people in the world of baseball, such as the person in charge of authentication, a discussion about the TV situation with one of those higher-ups, and even a talk about torpedo bats when they were the big thing last year. We can’t record the meetings, but we can talk about anything presented (and, occasionally, that picks up some steam). Overall, it’s been a fun experience.

So when I got an invite to a Zoom call, I wouldn’t have batted an eye except for one thing. This one wasn’t from MLB, it was from the Cardinals. As most of you know, communication with the Cardinals isn’t unprecedented—we’ve been doing the annual Blogger Day (now Blogger/Podcaster Day) since 2011 and there have been opportunities to cover Winter Warmup for almost that long—but something like this was new. What was even more remarkable was that the guest of honor was going to be none other than Cardinals manager Oli Marmol.

Similar rules were in place here. No audio or video recording (audio recording is allowed at Blogger Day but here it might have been difficult to separate the two) but anything discussed could be disseminated. (Since I have the email, call it direct written consent by the St. Louis Cardinals.) The meeting was held at 1:00 PM this afternoon with the idea that it would go 30 minutes. It ran a little longer and if Marmol had his way, we might have gone a couple of hours.

I tried to take notes while we went through this conversation, but one of the reasons I wanted to hurry and write this post was that hopefully I could make a little more sense of my notes instead of forgetting what I meant. If anything seems wrong, it’s likely my interpretation of what Marmol was saying. Also, I’ll not identify anyone that was on the call—I think the club kept it small because of the limited time available and not everyone could be a part of it. There are two exceptions. One has already said he was on it (and it would a surprise if he wasn’t) and the other—well, the context of his question makes it pretty clear who it was, especially to people that are also fans of my podcasts.

Let’s get into it.

Before we even got into the questions, Marmol had an opening statement, which was not surprising. Oli said that he wanted to do this conversation because he wanted people like us, who are representing the Cardinals brand in a way, to have more direct access to what is going on and why things are being done the way they are done. Having better information allows us to have better arguments and discussions which makes for the fans that read or listen to us to understand the organization better. While I doubt Oli has listened to any of the podcasts and I can tell you that he’s not a subscriber to the Substack (though that could change, Oli! Hit that button above!), he still is aware of the nontraditional media and what kind of following some of the folks on that call have.

The first question dealt with how he would be balancing developing pitching arms this season while still being as competitive as possible. Marmol said that he thought the way they handled Matthew Liberatore last year is probably a good template for what they’ll be doing this year. He didn’t want pitchers looking over their shoulders, worrying that a bad start would lead to demotion. He said that instead of a demotion, when the guys go do a bullpen between starts and really work on what went wrong, it goes so much better. When their mind shifts from thinking they are being evaluated to knowing they are being developed, it lifts a lot off of them.

In relation to this, he said he really wanted to see Kyle Leahy this year with this kind of mindset. He said that Leahy was a guy with a deep preparedness and strong mental focus, mentioning him in the same breath as Adam Wainwright when it came to those characteristics.

Next, the focus shifted to Nolan Gorman. The questioner noted that his walk rate and strikeout rate were better this spring, even though the counting stats haven’t been there. Marmol said that he doesn’t really look at counting stats at any time but especially not in spring. It’s about the process and the approach. In Gorman’s case, they slowed his bat speed down some so that he could start making more contact. As he gets more comfortable with that approach, they’ll ramp him back up to hopefully get more speed while keeping the contact, which is what they feel like they are seeing in spring. Oli did point out that you can get fooled in spring, though you try to avoid it.

My question was next and I asked how he was going to be able to balance development with the idea of trying to win every day. For instance, Player X might give you a 90% chance to win but the club needs to see what Player Y can do in those situations. Oli said, “With this” and reached off screen for a bottle of tequila, which immediately got Kyle Reis’s attention. (IYKYK) He said it was going to be more about developing winning habits. He mentioned that he’d dealt with this when he managed in the minors. Setting up the framework, getting people to play the game with a winning approach, might not win you today’s game but it will show up down the line.

He also said that we’d find out about people. The mindset had to be about winning today and not worrying about a timeline of 2028 or 2029. So you don’t change your approach, you just start laying that foundation and when it clicks, it clicks.

The next question was about Packy Naughton, which would have been music to my ears had he not given up the #70 last year. (Currently he’s at #71 in camp after his other number was given away.) Marmol said that Naughton was one of his favorite stories in camp. He’s been through so much and he does everything you want from a pitcher. The man has no fear and that can be contagious to the rest of the bullpen.

That wasn’t to say that Naughton was going to go north with the team. Marmol pointed out again that he’s missed a lot of time and while he could be a real weapon, that might not be on Opening Day. They need to work out a plan to see how things should look going forward. I took from that that it’s possible they’ll let Naughton start at Memphis and get back into full strength there before a promotion, but Marmol really couldn’t say enough good things about Naughton.

The viability of the six man rotation came up next. Marmol said that it did work for them last year. He was honest as he said there was no AAA depth last year so they knew pitchers had to stay healthy because there wasn’t anyone to take their place. So there is value in the six man, but when you look at the schedule the first five Thursdays are off days, which means that with a six man rotation everyone is pitching once a week. That’s not ideal. He pointed out that we talk a lot about injuries from someone pitching too much, such as a reliever going back-to-back days, but jumping into it after pitching too little is a real risk as well.

Marmol was asked if there were other players that had made large strides this off-season that surprised him. He thought about it for a while and said that he really liked where Maysn Winn’s offensive approach is at. Last year, as Winn admitted, he was swinging for the fences all the time. Now he has a better idea of what the situation requires. He also lauded how hard and effectively Winn is practicing. He thinks that we’ll really see it as the season gets going more than what we’ve seen in Jupiter.

From there, we moved on to Victor Scott II, as the questioner pointed out that he was hitting the ball harder. Marmol had a lot of praise for VS2, saying he could be more than a soft hitter that used his speed. He’ll close the gap on what can do quickly, including finding more consistency. Marmol also said he and many others had some really great off-season communication with the team, working hard and planning approaches.

Oli was asked who might be the next relief arm that would surprise people. He looked through a list and debated a bit. He said he liked Ryne Stanek out there and he mentioned another name that I missed. Then he brought up Chris Roycroft. He said last year the game was just too fast for Roycroft and you could see it, that he had trouble even fielding the position. He’s put a lot of work in and the game is coming to him slower now. He’s more in control of what he’s doing and Oli thinks we’ll see some good results out of him in 2026.

One of the prospect guys in the chat asked about prospects that had impressed. Oli said, “Baez was fun to watch, wasn’t he?” He said that Joshua Baez not only had great talent and skills but a remarkable demeanor. Marmol said that a lot of young guys may project calm but you can tell that they are still a bundle of nerves. Baez truly was that kind of collected, knows what he is doing individual. Oli then highlighted Luis Gastelum, whose name he mispronounced a couple of times before appealing to one of the other staff that was on the call. “I never get it right,” he said, but he reintegrated that the changeup is real.

That led right into the next question about how you reintegrate guys that have gone off to the World Baseball Classic when they return. He said that you look at the workload they had in the WBC and see if they need more innings or at bats to get ready or if they should maybe be a little more gentle with them. Thomas Saggese, he noted, would need more at bats. He said each case is different and that’s what he likes about what the staff is doing. All the different training plans, off-season work, etc. has been tailored to the individual. Nothing is cookie cutter or one size fits all.

The next question came from my Meet Me at Musial co-host Allen Medlock, who was actually out at the Tulsa Hale baseball field getting ready for a 4 PM game. He had some of his players with him and he asked Oli if he had any inspirational words for them. Oli said that, while he could do some words, he wasn’t a big inspirational speaker. He was more about honest conversations that led to some changes, either personally or professionally. He said that there are only 30 managerial jobs, so if he needs to be motivated there’s something wrong, and the same with the players. Motivation should come from inside, from knowing that you want to stay in the bigs. He said you should never look back and say that you didn’t do the work to succeed.

The next-to-last question was about two players. As Jordan Walker’s name was mentioned, Marmol quickly (and jokingly) said that he had to leave now. Even with him sticking around, Oli took the second part first, talking about how good Nelson Velazquez has been this spring. He impacts the ball in a way that there’s more room for error when he hits the ball for good things to happen. He’s been making adjustments and Marmol really likes what he sees.

Walker, he admitted, keeps them up at night. They are committed to having him figure this thing out while he is still a Cardinal. He indicated that they are in a spot in their relationship and openness that he wished they could have gotten to sooner. They continue to work on seeing how he could create real change, not just saying there’s change and then a few months later we’re back to the same spot. Marmol admitted that it could be a while before they get to a spot where they feel real good about it “or I might feel good about it three hours from now.” There is a responsibility for him and the staff to unlock the potential that Walker has and he has the responsibility to then carry that into games regularly. He said that Walker would take a couple days off and work in the hitting lab as he admitted that things just haven’t gone well this spring.

At this point Carson Shipley, the communication and public relations manager that set this up, indicated that we’d gone past the 30 minutes expected. He tried to wrap things up but Oli asked if everyone was good or if there were more questions. There was one final one about what the communication between the front office and the dugout was like, especially when it came to real time strategy.

Marmol said that if you didn’t like something that happened on the field, you could be mad at one guy, as he pointed to himself. He knows that there was this narrative that he was brought in as a puppet for the front office, but they’ve never dictated any on-the-field decisions. They provide tons of information, they discuss things with him, but the final responsibility is his. It’s an evolving relationship, especially with the transition from John Mozeliak to Chaim Bloom, and it will continue to evolve as time goes on.

As for game decisions, he says that usually before the game, he, Daniel Descalso, and Dusty Blake (among others, I would guess) get together and sort of plan out how they think things could go and what happens when it all goes wrong. They work through some ideas and scenarios, talking about who to use and who is available. After the game, they have feedback on the decisions. Sometimes they are decisions that worked in the game but the feedback is, “That’s a bad call—it worked this time, but it won’t work regularly.” Sometimes you get positive feedback about something that went sideways. They are always challenging each other and trying to make the best decisions possible.

As he closed, he reiterated how important it was for us to have as much of this kind of information as possible. St. Louis has never gone through this sort of rebuild before and now, more than ever, there needs to be some transparency. He also noted, as thumbs up and heart reactions floated through the end of the Zoom call, that “if we do this in July all those will be middle fingers”.

So general takeaways. One, I think it’s really likely we see Nelson Velazquez on the Opening Day roster. Two, Jordan Walker isn’t fixed yet and we shouldn’t think that the club thinks he is. Three, it really feels like they have the right manager in place for this era of Cardinals baseball. He appears to have the solid approach of getting the winning habits down and worrying about the results later. I think it’s going to be really fascinating to see how he manages this season. I hope that he’ll get a chance to explain some decisions either with the traditional media or with us. Heck, maybe he’ll start his own Substack!

Tonight’s Musial has Ben Clemens from FanGraphs, so be sure to check that out when it gets posted. David and I should be discussing things on Gateway this Sunday. We’ve run on enough here we’ll save the books and Star Wars talk for another time!