RobbieTheWagner 
Adam Argyle Welcome to Syntax! Welcome to a brand new episode of the Front End Happy Hour podcast. Welcome to this week's JS party. Live from ShipShape Studios, this is Whiskey Web and Whatnot, with your hosts, Robbie the Wagner and me, Charles William Carpenter III. That's right, Charles. We drink whiskey and talk about web development. I mean, it's all in the name. It's not that deep. This is WhiskeyWeb and Whatnot. Do not adjust your set. WhiskeyWeb and Whatnot is brought to you by... This episode is brought to you by Warp at Warp.dev. Warp is now open source, and Warp is built using Oz publicly for us all to see.
And it feels like a glimpse of how software is going to be built in the future with agents, except that's also now. But what's Oz? The cloud agent orchestration platform by the Warp crew. You got to check it out. Warp has also made their cloud integration even better. Find Ben Holmes and ask about the RAD Codex integration they just added too. You can also publish an agent session from Cloud Codex or open code to the cloud with one click and then monitor or steer that agent from your phone, browser, or some other computer. It is sick. All right, go ahead and close CMEX because Warp tabs are now on the left side.
They look like projects and each pane is visible within that tab project group. I've got four tabs open right now. Each tab has anywhere from one to four terminals in it, keeping sessions organized. and that visibility into the panes without having the tab open is awesome. Warp updated supported models too, adding Kimi K2.6, GLM 5.1, Minimax, and Quen. Check out warp at warp.dev or oz at oz.dev. Sweet. Back to that episode. Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to Whiskey Web and... Whatnot. With your hosts, Robbie the Wagner and Adam Thomas Argyle, the nerd. You are absolutely right. we'll get old one of these days it's not there yet yeah how you doing adam oh man good you know
classic uh i'm more empowered and faster than ever before and more uh anxiety i'm working harder than i ever have before so the promise is completely unfulfilled and i'm waiting for alanis morissette to sing a song about it hey well you can use gemini to make that song sure can't oh snap that would be really funny i had so much fun trolling my friends with that like because i got friends that are like playing uh slay the spire during video calls and so i'm like hey jim and i write a rap about this fool who thinks he can be in a video call and play slay the spire at the same time and it wrote it and it had these like great uh lines in it and oh man it's been so fun nice
nice well uh yeah so before we pour this whiskey do you want to tell the folks what we might be talking about today. In today's episode, we're covering the cloud leak, open cloud replacements, going from wetware to software, pretext, in-page agents, instant translation, killing entire SaaS companies, AI music, second brains, ultimate hacker, death stars, celebrity death match, agent battles, personified agents over video calls, and our LLMs, AGI yet? Come on, we're ready. Or are we? Yeah, a lot to cover. So we better grease the wheels with some hard bag we beastie we beastie so fun i can just it's a we beastie it's a we beastie more italian
then turned into luigi over here yeah well i'm ready for a scotch in my life again let's do it oh speaking of scotches i got the uh my wife is doing a costco order and i was like hey i i had the the kirkland brand scotch a week ago it's pretty good will you um get me one and she's like yeah there's like the regular scotch for the 12 year kirkland brand i'm like yeah go to 12 12 year it was 35 and i was like that's so cheap but get it it showed up it's absolutely massive the thing it's a costco sized huge kirkland bottom like oh my goodness like it doesn't even fit in my cupboard oh yeah that's the way their vodka is too it's like she's you know it's like you know
it's like way too big so big i'm like it's like a two liter bottle of scotch and i'm like this is so american to just have that much uh scotch delivered to my door it's just hilarious yeah this smells good yeah so reminder for our loyal listeners we now talk about the whiskey at the end. So if you're interested in that, listen until the end. And if you're not interested in that, stop listening when we start talking about it. All right. Yeah. So one of the news things that is a little bit old now, it'll be really old by the time you hear this, I'm going to start releasing episodes a lot more often, hopefully, so that we can't stop saying
that but cloud code source was leaked which uh is hilarious i saw a fun tweet about like um you know they want you to pay more for them to like review your prs also and the fact that they could like ship this out and not notice is like just hilarious it is funny i love all the things people went looking for um i was like oh the source is leaked and you know i didn't get any creative ideas and Wes Boss is like I wanted to know how many of the words it says when it's thinking yeah I'm like that was a great one that was a good one yeah I saw that I think it had like 512,000 lines of code or something and I think uh open code has like 110,000 these are um I'm not
sure the exact numbers but Dax had posted about it and they were like oh I'm getting LOC mogged Like I need to need to up our, our lines of code. And, um, so yeah, I think that's interesting that they have so much in there. I feel like they have a ton of stuff that people don't need. Like, I think this goes back to the things that access saying about like, don't just ship stuff. Cause you can like make sure it's something people want to use. Cause I feel like there's nothing in open code or that's not an open code. I'm like, Oh man, I wish it would do that. I don't know. How do you feel? Less is more, although, you know, like I stopped using
pie as much recently and went back to Claude. So it's like, I loved the idea of, you know, training a puppy and growing this thing with me and starting small. And eventually I was just like, I don't know some of the noise that that caused. I was like, no, but put the batteries in batteries included. I don't want to think about it just work. Cause I want to sit down and I just want to get results and so um i'm gonna waffle on this forever just as we always do right this pendulum will swing um but yeah if it's got that much code in it and it's handling a lot of my cases then it's all good i do like their team implementation um and i like a lot of the you
know they kind of keep hardening some of the better patterns and the things so maybe that's why it's growing so instead of relying on plugins uh they just build it in it's a very apple mentality i'm feeling very much like anthropic is turning an apple uh page here they're like learning from them like oh we need to create the walled garden we don't want people to be reaching outside of our system which is also why they closed out open claw and we'll get to that but i'm just getting a lot of apple five maybe that's because they want to ipo and they're like we need to we need to trap people uh which i hope they're not saying yeah they might be so yeah i'm i don't
want to say anything super bad because you know i do have their free max plan i'm enjoying it thanks thanks again for that um however it's it doesn't feel great to use like yes it has those fun words of like whatever it's doing uh discombobulating or whatever like every time um but i feel like i'm i'm not clear on exactly what it's doing all the time and maybe that's by design. But I feel like in open code, I know for sure if I'm planning or not, I know like what it's thinking about. I can like, I feel more in control and maybe it's just because I haven't used cloud code as much. But one thing is for sure,
you need to be using the Anthropic models. They are so much better than all the other ones. So we lost the ability to use them at work and I've been having to use GPT 5.4 or Codex 5.3, which I don't know why they're on different numbers, whatever. Anyway, and it has been bad. Like, it's back to, like, using Sonnet or even before that. Like, you know, back when we used to poo-poo on AI, I feel like that's what the results I'm getting now of, like, you know nothing. like I'm going to hurl obscenities in your direction because I'm so tired of you not doing what I asked and like it it also oversteps or something it's like it does too much and maybe
that's part of I need to give it more instruction but like I think by default there was less getting done and it was like more powerful correct code getting done with opus than like this just tries to vomit like more code to solve the problem and that's not how it should work yep i use alternative models to review the output of opus but opus is always the reliable uh good one and that's why i'll continue to pay their their subscription model i like those models those are the ones i want to have the most access to um and that's why i was so gut-wrenching when they said i couldn't use pi to access uh those models anymore can you from open code you have to use open router how are
you using Opus from OpenCode? Uh, I have OpenCode Zen or a black OpenCode black, sorry. Um, whatever it is, different words. Um, and that still lets you use it. It's, um, you know, similar to paying for your cloud subscription. You can pay like a hundred bucks a month, 200 bucks a month, like whatever tier you want. Um, I don't know how the limits compare. I would imagine the limits are much lower because i think they have to pay api prices because they got shut down from that shit goes fast man i tried it i um and that money went out the door really fast and it made my subscription just look really valuable um yeah you must be because they banned third-party harnesses
yeah yeah if i'm using it all day like i'm gonna sit down and i'm gonna use open code with um with some anthropic models and i'm gonna code something today maybe a few somewhere between a few hours into like definitely before the end of the day it's like you're at your limit and like maybe not even just like the daily or what like the weekly limit or whatever and i'm just like oh shit like so we're just stuck i'm just not gonna do anything else so then you know luckily i have many other options i use warp some i use um clod code directly like i just bounce around as until i hit limits um that's how i've been doing
it yep i do that with warp and clod um and warp i'll hit my credit limits pretty quick because i'm only paying 20 bucks a month or so um and i still like warp in a whole bunch of ways um so i'm going to keep paying that one but my clod one i'm only at the hundred dollar month one and i haven't reached those limits one time um i wouldn't say i'm like a power user on my personal time um but i definitely i'll leave it running and it'll do things for 45 minutes and it won't even you know get past 25 of what my limit is so i'm feeling pretty good about um staying inside of that ecosystem for now but it did make it hard with open clause they said no pi yeah no open
code no third-party harnesses at all you better figure out uh how to use it in some other way and i yeah i tried the keys and just ate up 10 bucks and like a couple queries and i was like well this is just not gonna work um but i did solve it for open claw and got it worked out so they had there's and here's the thing i don't know if it's a loophole or not yet the the way that they're saying this is no third-party harnesses which is open code uh pi uh codex i suppose and other things that or even copilot if it's the harness you can't use their models through some other window this is that's what i mean it's so apple it's like safari it's like hey our model is safari
and you can only use it on an apple product or i guess it's iMessage you can only iMessage from an iPhone type of deal. So it seems weird though, right? Because like, sorry to derail you, but like, yeah. Um, essentially a harness is just feeding more data into the prompt. Right. So like, um, how is that different than me defining my own like agents MD or whatever, like my own instructions? Like, what if I just go, cool, I'm going to take exactly what open code has been telling you and put it all in here. That's fine. You just don't want me to have a different UI where it looks a little different.
They want some control. They want to know what was that went in there before it turned into the actual query. And that's kind of why it's confusing about what I have set up is it's using the Cloud CLI. So they allow you to programmatically access models through the Cloud CLI, which I guess is just not a harness. or if you put logic in front of the CLI call, it's not a harness. So we need to really dig in at some point and figure out what is a harness and how is that different from just a proxy? Because it feels like a proxy. And like, so you have open router, open router is a proxy. You have all these things that are sort of like
decorating the request before it goes in there. But how is a harness? And I think what it was is some harnesses really put a lot in front. And that was what their big complaint was with open clause. it was just packing in because it would heartbeat and it would do it and every heartbeat had all this context and so they were just getting these like small queries that had huge amounts of context in there and they were like this is just not cool and maybe when they own the harness they can mitigate a lot of that thing i'm not sure um yeah nice mr ray's like hey we sound so slow i do the same thing i meet people in real life and i'm like whoa i listened to you on a podcast and
you're like snails right now. I can't even believe it. But yeah, I found ClaudeClaw, which acts a lot like, so I still interface through Discord. I still send all my messages. I can still thread out and get all my sub-agents and everything, except I'm just not going through Pi anymore. I'm pinging a Bun server and the Bun server then forwards it to the CLI, the Claude cli and then it gets the response and pipes it back into discord so it's some it's so similar that i'm like this is sanctioned but the other one wasn't what's the difference is this one going to get canceled at some point so i'm also trying clod co-work because it makes a lot of
promises like open claw and that has not been as successful so far it's anyway that's quite a predicament we're in yeah i mean i think they should have just put out their own open claw basically like i don't i mean maybe they're working on it and like there wasn't an exact need for that sort of product but you know they they should have just acquired it or built their own thing a lot of people are building the consumer version of this now that we were talking about earlier like um uh sentient something and uh i don't have the notes stuff hold on hark yeah sentience or yeah sentience and hark yeah sentience stock company and hark
yeah these are both promising to be consumer ready uh open class for you yeah yeah so i think like this is going to be the next thing that people are going to try to charge you tons of money for is how do we get that magic of open claw and one make it easy there's no setup you just use it to make it actually remember and work, which open call never, ever, ever one time has done for me. And I got so heated with it the other day. Like I was like, hey, this thing that we do every week, my dude, let's let's make some episode art. It's like, cool, cool. All right. Here it is. I was like, all right, cool.
That looks like shit. Why did you do it that way? And it's like, well, I don't know. Let me like, it didn't ask me any clarifying questions and just started trying, like, let me try, uh, these like 15 different image generation things that none of are going to work. So I don't have any API keys for anything. And, um, it was like, uh, well, yeah, I couldn't get any of that. So what if I just give you some texts to put in somewhere and try to prompt it to give it to you and like, whatever. And so that didn't work. And also another thing it does all the time, we post a post bridge and like whatever.
And I'm like, all right, every time you post a post bridge, like if there's one thing you need to remember, like put it in every memory spot, you're going to check, make it a draft because you might fuck it up. And I want to review it and say, no, no, that sounds stupid. Oh, I saw this post it made. Yeah. Yeah. It made like, okay. So it posted, it goes cool. I posted everywhere. And I was like, was it a draft? It was like, Oh dang, it wasn't a draft. Let me like go edit that one. I couldn't edit it. So I posted another one. It wasn't a draft either. I was like, damn it. Now I got two out there.
And then I was like, all right, can you make it a draft? And it goes, uh, actually the API doesn't support making it a draft. There's no way to do it. I was like, we've done this so many times before you have to set something to make it a draft. It's like, no, it doesn't support it, man. And I was like, okay, there's an open claw skill for this. Like in the, what do they call it? The open claw registry or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Um, Yeah. Yeah. So I was like, you've installed this skill. Go read it. It goes, oh, shit. Yeah, that does tell me all the stuff I can do. And I was like, yeah. OK, can you do it?
It's like, no. And I was like, what in the world? Like, and so I go set is underscore draft to true in your post. And it goes, oh, it works. And I was like, yes, you fucking dumbass. Like, how are you having this much trouble? we've done this so many times and i had to manually tell you exactly what to do because you couldn't figure it out and like man the magic is wearing off on this thing like i know you've been having a lot of open claw success but it's been getting worse and worse for me i've had i've had memory issues plenty of them and that's why you see there's a lot of people competing in the
memory space right now they there was even a celebrity that came out with a agentic memory system recently did you see that one and i was like wow we're at the point now we're like celebrities are making shit for AI. That's pretty hilarious. But yeah, and I've been working on a second brain and the second brain is still just as annoying. It's all markdown files that live on the thing. And, or on the thing, it's like my machine right here. I'm like pointing to it. But anyway, it's like, I'm like, Hey, Hey, I'm going to the baseball game. Tell me all the kids' families that I'm going to see there.
I need to know the parents' names. And it's like, dude, it lists out baseball team players. It goes, yeah, here's some baseball players. And I'm like, what are you talking about no i specific you know what else does this to me too is like google home and we have a google home and i'm like hey play my playlist called morning crooners and it goes playing the playlist something something crooners and i'm like no no no no no stop my playlist i don't give a shit about everybody else's playlist just just mine so would you play my you know query first for mine then match the words play it very easy uh and it still won't do it i'm just like
fine i'll whip out my phone geez um but yeah people are trying to figure out this memory thing because it's really frustrating these things are innately not memory they're not supposed to have memories and llm is just a word vomit machine it just says oh snap i was given some prompts i need to make another word and another word and another word and we're trying to give it a sense of this by front loading it and it's just not working um and it should be part of the initial harness right of like if you're open claw that's supposed to be what like or i guess pie under the hood The learning thing, right?
Yeah. Is like that should say, okay, we're all computer programs at the end of the day, right? So when you start the program, look at the fucking memory and the like, just research what you're supposed to do and make sure that you remember what we talked about you remembering before you ever try to do anything else. That should be easy to program. I would think. Why? When I go, remember this, remember this, remember this is like, no, no. I mean, someone was tweeting me that on blue sky. They're like, why did you expect a non-deterministic system to be somehow deterministic? And I'm like, well, because it's kind of deterministic in a lot of scenarios.
I don't think it's unrealistic for me to expect it to do these things. I get what you're saying, but also there's enough guardrails that we can put this thing on rails. It's on rails already. All I need to do is make sure I give it enough descriptions that it stays on rails, but here we are. mixed like like there needs to be more explicit instruction run a script kind of things before the ai oh yeah llm like but i guess it's trying to understand what i asked for in the first place before it can load the relevant information so like if you made a like slash command it'd probably be better than if i'm like make episode art then it has to go oh let me like search for
how to make episode art like you know what i mean so maybe that's my fault of not being explicit with my commands. I don't know. I think it's also like this cloud class system that I ended up setting up. It's programmatic, right? It's calling the CLI. So it has an opportunity to take in what I said, break it into pieces, do something more programmatic with it before it eventually hits the cloud CLI or the, yeah. And it does a little bit, except you know, what's back is the posting to the general channel. And I'm like, no, I'm like, no, this thing, it's just going to haunt me forever. And so like, I'm even in there, I'm looking at the cloud MD
file. It says like never posted the general check. Basically I'm like, if you are replying never ever the general channel, you're replying to something. There's something that you are innately messaging back to never use the general channel for that. And then, uh, you know what it started, it always gives me different solutions to it. It's like, I put one in the reply and one in general and I'm like, well, that's stupid. I just needed the one and the thing so yeah I don't know what these memories Klaus does that the art will be in the general channel but like the talking of like it'll be like I generated this stuff in the thread but then
it'll post the like art in the general channel so it's like it's almost there but the threads are super important actually because I have my open claw at home which I don't use for anything because it cost me so much money and was so shitty but I think it was because I was using iMessage and I think in iMessage with no threads it's reading the entire iMessage history which included me asking like could you look up the API shape of a couple things which is like 20,000 tokens per one and so every time you did anything it was like you're over your tokens as soon as you asked it like one question so
I think the discord thread thing is a must or something the threaded to where it's not going to read an entire channel to like understand what you're trying to do yeah so we got our wet wearer we're trying to turn it into software and i'm just glad i'm not like trying to build one of these products because look at us we're just consumers right we're like open source hackers early adopters we're whining about it imagine if this was our job and like eight hours a day you're trying to teach this thing actual recall to have actual memory about stuff and you're just like this stupid thing oh i could just see people getting so mad
yeah I mean I feel like it has to be totally outside of the LLM interaction of like you have to you know maybe because you want natural language right so you're doing something in natural language you have to be able to convert that into something that like the LLM can turn it into like oh cool this might be these 10 things and then you use like a real program that's like searching for those things versus like it thinking about it and then when it finds that stuff then you give it that context of like i feel like there's missing pieces of it needs to be more programmatic in between instead of like you know guessing and hallucinating
everything for every little thing um because when it's doing that it gets it wrong a lot of the time yeah whoever's gonna win this at home open cloud assistant uh it's gonna i assume it's gonna be a box i think you're gonna buy a box and plug it into your wi-fi um and then give people access yeah would buy a box and then it needs to have memory it needs to actually apply memory because if it was sitting there annoying regular people like this there's just no way they're going to use it um let's move on from memory and clod to pretext how much of this did you see well i mean how could you miss it i suppose but sorry i just wanted to close this loop while we're still on
anthropic-y things let's talk about mythos for just a second oh yeah good call yeah so mythos new model, which some people speculated was just Opus because they were getting too much it was too expensive for everyone using Opus. They weren't charging enough and so they wanted to call it something else. It sounds like, and it could all be marketing, but it sounds like they're like, oh, it's so powerful. It's so much more powerful than anything. It found every security vulnerability and everything in one second. Not really, but some of the things that they say it did, they're like, they spent $50 to find a 27 year old bug in open BSD.
They could spend under a thousand dollars to find and build a fully working remote code execution exploit on free BSD, like stuff that's going to really affect you know, Linux kernel vulnerabilities also like things that would really blow up like a ton of infrastructure if they were just kind of released in the wild. Cause this would take weeks or months of like a person banging on something, been trying to, to fix it. Um, so yeah, I think, um, you know, if they're taken at that face value of like, this is actually what it is. Um, then I guess things got a lot better, huh? I'm not sure how, but, uh, I, I feel like it's a lot of marketing.
I do think they're, um, they're doing some good stuff of like, they're saying as part of this, we're going to start project Glasswing, which is like, I don't even know who else involved, all the like monomona companies and whoever. Um, and they're going to say like, we're going to, before we release this model to everyone, we're going to like use it internally and fix all these things. So people can't like get access to this really good model and just screw everyone over, which, uh, also at face value is a good thing to do. I think like being responsible instead of just releasing it to the world um and there's probably going to be a lot more of that i would think of like if things do
continue to theoretically get better then if you released it and hackers could use it in like day one you're just like everyone's done so maybe a good idea yeah i got the sense that um because open ai also did something nice this week and both of them are trying to ipo and so you need to make yourself critical and i think by sharing that you're you have a model that can exploit everybody makes people scared of you, but you came out at the gate as a good guy. And now you can go ask for money and be a hero, right? So you're like, so that's them, I think, just trying to really establish themselves as
critical infrastructure, a critical tool that this world needs. And then you had OpenAI say, we're going to displace so many jobs with AI that, well, it needs to be a part of your utility bill. So how you have water and you have power and gas. Now you need to have AI. And with that, we also propose that the world moves to a four day work week. Did you see that opening? I came out the gate and they're like, we're going to basically, no one needs to work as much anymore. There's going to be way less jobs. We're going to be part of your utility bill and it'll be great. Everybody. It'll all be great.
So it's like, and honestly, I was like, Hey, a four day work week. Can you sell my boss on that? That sounds great. I would love an extra day to do that. So both of them trying to really position themselves as critical infrastructure, open AI coming out and saying we need to be a government funded bill like you get at your doorstep every month. And Anthropic saying, hey, we found critical, wildly vulnerable, like important vulnerabilities. But don't worry, we're not bad guys. We'll fix them. so so yeah I do um on the topic of a four-day work week or like less work in general because AI is going to solve so much one we've just proven that because now there's just way more work way
more work geez yeah but but related I do wonder how you feel about this like all right so you've got five agents running right you got them on long running tasks you're waiting you're kind of playing the waiting game you you don't have more than five things to work on so you're like what do i do right so if they're running and working it's the middle of your work day you want to go to the movies or whatever like are you still working is that cool like this is i feel like going to be a fluid thing with work in the future of like it's like you know the when the code was compiling for 10 hours before like in the old days like yeah it's compiling can't do anything
i'm gonna play ping pong yeah this is work it's all good yeah so it's like is that the new new world we're going to live in of like everything I could possibly implement. I've got agents working on and like, why would I sit here and just wait for them to tell me when they're done? I might as well go do something fun. Like there's nothing else productive. I can do nothing else productive. I'm being asked to do. Um, or will people see that as like, Oh, you only have five things you can think of to do while you're fired. Because like this guy has a hundred things he can think of to do. And he's never like just waiting.
He's always prompting. Um, I don't know. I wonder if you have thoughts around that? Hmm. Yeah. I mean, I could see arguments on both sides where it's like, while one is working, you could be planning for the next one. But I don't think that's necessarily making you more efficient. So it's like, it's going to be efficiency based. I'm not sure. I do know that if you kind of slack off while it's working, someone's going to accuse you of not working hard enough. Maybe it'll just be hours so it's like you you worked through this window and whether or not agents are doing things it's irrelevant as you need to be lining it might be kind of like the burn window or um the night
shift day shift scenario where you need to be queuing things up so your work day is going to be adding to the queue you're working ahead of agents agents are somehow behind you uh ralph wiggum looping over your to-do list um but i don't know depends on maybe it depends on the employer you know well i think it like you know this is another thing that i've always struggled with is like hourly billing in general is so stupid if you're like hey um i'm gonna fix your car right cool if you fix it i don't care if it took you one hour or 20 hours if you want to charge me two thousand dollars and i feel like that was a big thing to fix cool so like you know i think
hours is is not a good measure of like productivity so i wonder if there'll be something similar of like okay well if the thing that your agents are building while you're uh oh you your agents are building stuff that takes so long you went on vacation for a week but you came back and they made us fifty thousand dollars so is that cool like i don't know i feel like there's so many like things that are going to have to be solidified in terms of like corporate they're gonna want more yeah ian's saying that in the chat too i mean we just know it there we and we already see it um we are out but i'm outputting clearly more than i ever would have before i think that the
work that i was able to do in the past couple weeks um building some components for shopify absolutely would have taken me a month or more for how much i'm able to output right now and they're not asking me to do less they're also not asking me to do more but they are asking me to continue. Actually, they are asking me to do more. They were like, hey, they were like, they're like, hey, quote, quote, how long it's going to take you to build those components. And I was like, well, I don't want to undercut you. And I don't want to say a big number that makes you upset. But I'm like, I think it's about two weeks for, you know, a couple of components
every two weeks. They're going to be well tested. You know, we're going to have put them in, you know, mobile and desktop across all these browsers. There's a lot of things to account for. And they were like, well, you have AI though, right? So it's like faster. And I'm like, that is faster. And I'm like- Two weeks was the faster number. That was the faster number. I was like, you can look at prior things that we solved in it. We finished 80% in a couple months. And then you had another six months of shit cleanup. I'm anticipating we still have the shit cleanup part. So it's actually kind of fast for me even to be quoting too.
I'm feeling really guilty even saying two weeks on this. So, um, so yeah, no one's asking for less. Everyone's still asking for more. Stick to your guns, man. Be like, no, it takes a long time. Like I did. Yeah. I stuck to him and I was like, I also, um, would rather overshoot and deliver faster than undershoot. And y'all are like, where is it? You know? And it's like, that's just, that's not nice to do to anybody. So I'd rather actually be slightly more realistic here. Yeah. It's, uh, some heavy, heavy stuff going on with AI. Um, and I'm hearing it from multiple people too. Designers are also feeling it.
they're not being asked to do less. They're being asked to do more. Everybody's asked to do more. And it's a lot of learning and people don't necessarily love adapting. And so it can be a slog to learn a new tool. Yeah. Well, I mean, I still stand by like, yes, there's a lot you could do to manually configure a ton of tools and get like a really good workflow right now. But I think this stuff moves so quick. Give it a month. The tools will be better. Like you, you being expected to do more is scary right now but the tools will catch up and allow you to do more with like basically no extra learning on your part in my opinion yep there's a huge amount of
things to be learned from here and massive advantages yes i'm i don't want to go back to how i was working i just migrated my site it took me a couple weeks it was still a couple weeks even with ai um and i would have never done this without ai it would have taken me so long i I went from DinoFresh 1 to DinoFresh 2. I had to migrate hosting platforms. They have an old classic to a new hosting platform, which was not a one-to-one. The migration scripts did not work. I'd done way too much custom stuff. My site is surprisingly complex. If you go to nerdy.dev, it feels like, oh, this must've just been built with Astro.
Oh, hell no. It's a CSS only webpage actually. Yeah. No JavaScript, no HTML. Oh man, I wish. There's so much under there. I have so many layers of cache. It's a server rendered almost real time website experience. I want it to feel like a social network. It's grabbing data from multiple APIs constantly. I keep a backup of data. Anyway, I have all this stuff going on, all this stuff. And I would have never done it without AI. This stuff is just so invaluable in my pocket right now. Yeah. Did I tell you about the AstroDB stuff? No, but I know they've had some recent advancements there because I didn't like spinning up our
site because it had some quirks what's up yeah um so they are basically not investing in astro db anymore because it's essentially just a thin drizzle wrapper um and so they were their suggestion was like just use drizzle and so i told i was like yo opus just use drizzle my dude and it was like done no way yeah so it's like yeah that's the kind of stuff i would have hated having to like figure out all the differences and like but yeah and it even kept the same commands of like i still pnpm db seed and it will like put the new people and sponsors and whoever in the database and like it just works and it's still still using the same like torso database didn't
have to move it anywhere else or do anything it just just worked so those are the kind of things where i'm like oh man i love love ai for like when it when this kind of stuff works well i love that yeah for infrastructure stuff it kicks butt but again like i've had those css issues where it just turned and turned and spent all that money and then i went in and you know just it happened again today i was like hey there's two extra pixels when i'm transitioning from state a to state b it looks like it's this just go fix the two pixels i need these two columns to be the same size i can't see two pixels it can't see two pixels and it goes oh i did all the math and it's
this and this and this and now they're both the same i'm like that's not the same you get one more trifle and it goes it's the i got it this time oh you're right you're absolutely it's not fixed i go look and i deleted a line of css to fix it that's actually been really consistent with my fixes with ai is like i don't delete pixels oh my goodness no seriously oh yeah yeah no okay go ahead you can't see it all anyway yeah tell me about pretext pretext okay so this has been a fun thing like when i was at chrome i had a lot of time spent with the text rendering folks and this is how we got things like text box trim.
We were working on fit width text. And so it's in Canary. You can go try it where as you type, it will fit the font size to the width of the box that it's in. If you make a new line, that new line will also fit to the width. And so you can do slab text and billboards and your headlines can always fit perfectly to your grid system and all sorts of cool shit like that. And one of the bummers was, and this also showed up with balanced, Text Wrap Balance and Text Wrap Pretty, where when we first, we, I'm not even there anymore. Hate that when I say we. Anyway, when Chrome. Those guys. Those guys, those douches that treated me like a cell,
a line item in a database. Anyway, they were like, oh, it's so expensive to do this text wrapping stuff. The algorithm is just too much. The webpage would just suffer too much from the rendering. We can only do six lines of wrapping text before we will give up on pretty balancing. It's literally what they did. At first it was four. it was four at first they were like if it's more than four lines we give up on the algorithm i was like that's weird four okay i'll go pitch that as devrel shirt and then later they're like actually we could do six i'm like oh two extra lines wow that's great safari comes out a couple months
later and they go unlimited lines they're like yeah that's right our browser will do balanced and pretty unlimited rapping and you can just see like oh the competition's getting hot oh my goodness and so then we're working on this fit with tech stuff and it's uh really hard and expensive and i'm like here's what people want here's all these examples and all this stuff and they're like well we can do that but we can't do that other one i'm like all right what about this one they're like oh yeah we can do that one i'm like what about this and they're like oh can't do that one so then pretext comes out and it does everything lick just lick lightning fast off the
main thread just scream and speed and so as soon as that got gets posted i'm like pinging those devs and i'm like hey remember those things that i wanted that you said were too expensive someone figured out how to do client side with type script like i know this is going to drive some people nuts so i had so much fun looking at it but pretext is this way this person went through this uh rigorous uh strategy and it's also quite limited there's a lot and i'm very aware of the limitations but it has some cool features wait it sorry was very fast there's like a dragon that goes through this is the dragon going through the text okay i have seen this i didn't know what it was called
yeah that's pretext and so someone figured out how to basically pre-render all of the different scenarios that could happen for the text to be in completely bypass layout by using position absolute which reminds me of famo.us remember famous i don't famous oh man famous made they were one of the first like animation libraries to make a million dollars and it blew everyone's mind they had a demo where they had all these uh squares that could go into a helix and then to a periodic table and then into this other shit man it was just dude you're on an ipad one with like no fucking ram and this shit was buttery gorgeous and so other people were like struggling to
animate height you know went to your fucking accordion and just like squeak open and stutter and meanwhile these guys are famous are just like have a helix whipping around and you could touch pan and it was gorgeous so anyway but the way that they did that was they completely circumvented the browser's layout engine everything was position absolute and then everything was positioned with transforms. You're entirely on the GPU. So that's similar to what's happening here with pretext. Pretext is positioned absolute everything. So you're abandoning native text layout and rendering and going straight for a computed off-canvas strategy.
So you give it all the text that you need to render. You kind of give it these conditions and constraints. It goes and does the work on an off-text canvas and puts it back into the page, completely bypassing the slow part of the web, the slow part in quotes here, which really the slow part meaning the part that makes text globally accessible on any screen size ever in the whole world but whatever now you got dragons going through your text and the text is completely reshaping its way around the dragon at in real time with zero stutters um and that's pretext oh it's definitely not accessible no i mean you might be able to figure out ways to make
it accessible but it wouldn't be and plus that's the other thing too is like every demo you see You see, you're like, ew, that's a cool demo, but I hope you don't do that on the webpage that I need to use. You know, like that's a super uncool. It's cool, but uncool. But there are some good examples. Like remember when React first came out and you had an infinite scroll, they could virtualize the list and do all this cool stuff that you could actually scroll 10,000 items. And that was like the one of their big things that came out. Well, Pretext can, since it's not doing layout, It can have you scroll through dynamically height rows of data content forever, basically.
So it has some of these like meaningful applications, but most of them are pretty showy. But that's anyway, so that's pretext in a nutshell is a way to render glyphs into sentences, into paragraphs using and achieving all of these really cool typography effects, not just animations, but the fit to width text. You have beautiful justification, which is something we don't even have. We have TextRap Pretty and TextRap Balanced, but we don't have balanced justification. Anything your mind could ever want, this is able to do. And it does it by not even asking the browser to learn something new. It just teaches it to it.
So that's why everyone got so hyped. It's like a typography nerd's dream. There are limitations, like you can't use any font. It needs to be able to render into a canvas and it has to do all these. Anyway, there's a lot of conditions, but if you match the conditions, you can get some really cool effects out of it. So that's pretext. Yeah. Nice. Yeah. I feel like that's a recurring theme of like anything that is super duper cool just bypasses the entire browser and does whatever it wants. But like I remember I honestly don't remember a ton about what this was for or why. but I remember you could like do a translate Z of like some amount,
which would just tell it to use the GPU or whatever. Like, um, this, I feel like there's always been little hacks of like, how can we get it on the GPU and like, um, doing better things. Uh, so yeah, I don't know. Yeah. It's a cool, cool experiment for sure. It was cool. It got, people just went nuts with the demos. I'm sure almost everybody used AI to make the demos. They're like, Hey, take the, cause it was, It's pretty complex, but it did some cool stuff. How about agentation? Have you heard of this one? Agentation? Agentation? Anyway. I have not. How many times have you been building something with Cloud
and you go to the browser and it's off? Okay, here you go. It's off by two pixels. So I put up DevTools. I inspect. I see where the two pixels are. I go back to Cloud. I'm like, hey, remove the margin on this class name. And it goes, okay, cool. And it removes the margin on the class name. Agentation says, hey, install this Chrome extension. then you can do this visually. And so you click the extension, you click where the margin is bad, and you're like, fix the margin. It gives you a prompt into your clipboard and you go paste it into cloud code. And it does exactly what you were doing, except way faster.
And you can do three or four of them at a time. It's got really nice animations. That's agitation in a nutshell, which is kind of cool. So it's really just grabbing selectors of some kind and building some sort of prompt saying, like look at these selectors or something like that? Literally what it does. Yep. It tries to find a unique selector for that particular item that you selected. It builds, in my opinion, more of a prompt than I would have written. I would have written something quite minimal, but it goes pretty specific, which maybe helps it gets better results. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I think the less you say, as long as it gets the point across, works better usually. Oh, which have you heard of people doing? Oh, what's it called? it's like a caveman prompt the caveman prompting yeah like do a thing like yes c class fix margin it just does it yeah oh that's so funny it makes sense because the engine doesn't give a crap about your filler words all it's trying to do is oh man i thought that was hilarious i'm glad we brought that up it's not in the notes yeah the caveman prompting yeah i can't keep up with all the different things i see on twitter but that was a fun thing that i saw that's a fun one uh here's
another one uh google came out with instant translation finally instant translation where as people are talking it's literally in real time translating for you any language and a lot of people are like this what uh apple's stuff was supposed to do i don't think anyone's cracked the nuts uh there's been a lot of promises like there's an app you could hold up and it was supposed to do it on the screen and all these different scenarios but it always lagged enough that it made it abrasive and now it's instant and so a lot of people are like well buy a duolingo i don't need to learn spanish anymore i just need to put in this earbud and i can talk to anybody
i guess you can listen to anybody that you want to you can't you have to both have the earbuds yeah you have to both have the earbuds yeah the airpods definitely do this like i got some new airpods uh recently but i haven't been in a country where i would use the translation or whatever. But yeah, I think that's a very interesting thing. And maybe it wasn't instant on the Apple ones, but I know that they were touting, like if you both have them, you can just speak your normal language and like talk to each other because they both translate, which yeah, like why would you ever need, I don't know.
So whenever you, it depends on how well it's getting the context of what you're saying. Cause you know, if you type in an English sentence and say, translate it to Italian. It's, it loses some of the, like what exactly we're saying. Like they, they'll understand what you meant, but sometimes you might get an offensive thing or like something that makes you sound like an idiot or like, because it's not translating it to the way they would actually say it. So I think there's still, you know, a market for a Duolingo or, you know, things to learn languages. Um, I don't think there'll be a, maybe one day, like with AI helping
and stuff there'll be a way to know exactly oh this was what you meant so let's take that like meaning and make it instead of translating words um and maybe they're already there i don't know i haven't used it but maybe we should try it because yeah if it's like captioning it's not going to work very good right you're like oh great i got an instant uh translation of garbage that have helps me zero yeah i have a meeting with job of the hut later as joe says yep love it oh it's so funny so it's probably not going to kill duolingo but if i was duolingo i would be crapping my pants right now kind of like all sass i've been saying about sass for a
minute um that i would be really worried there's a lot being threatened to that scenario right now so who knows what's going to happen yeah but i mean all those companies should just be also vibe coding like make their thing better throw more features out that are good and move fast and like never never rest on your laurels always keep iterating yeah it makes me dude i almost thought you were going to talk like a caveman there for a second it made me want to do it it's just like see app make better you know it's like our ceos just turned into caveman that would be a hilarious skit like app slow go fast um i think i've already talked about my second
brain but i um just want to share it again like i'm really enjoying investing in it especially because the files are local that was one of the things was like cloud co-work it wanted me to put everything in in drive or some sort of cloud storage and i was like no you don't understand i want my files i don't want a dependency on the cloud i want to talk to my computer and my files i want very little between me and my data i'm trying to stick on my disk here and that's like the other wetware to hardware to software i want this extension of myself and it's been really handy um yeah i think i even asked you for you and your
kids names or your wife's name i was like give me your family's names i would like to know this tomorrow because i'll know it for the next five minutes but i'm gonna forget so it's been really helpful yeah i forget everything um so how is it different than like something like obsidian i haven't used obsidian either but i think that's what they're trying to do is be like a full um you know brain mapping all these markdown files that like tell you oh you thought about this over here and like i don't know is it similar or different it's similar and different everybody's kind of doing the same thing so there's like a very specific uh way that
obsidian does it and obsidian is kind of like a wiki there's links and stuff like that the way that I have it set up is probably many would call primitive. I'm just a primitive ape man over here trying to have a second brain. Like I don't have links. I'm not querying it. So I'm not using QMD, which is query markdown, which creates a graph and can be really intelligent about it and stuff like that. I don't have that. I'm also not using Obsidian specifically. It's like literally just markdown files with like dumb ass data in it. And AI is grepping it. I'm like pretty sure that that's all that's happening because i have like lists of dog names that i would like to name a
dog one day you know like i don't want to remember that all day every day but i'd like you to keep track of like i was like just the other day i was like okay i had to name damon uh to it you know like a demon like as i'm spawning a process on my computer i'm like damon oh damon like that okay yeah like a dog name yeah damon uh or jank was another one i was like yeah i'd like to name a dog jank one day that'd be cool um right it's like imagining that at the vet like where's jank we're looking for jank funny but yeah the second brain's been it feels like something i want to invest more in which is not what i'm saying about a lot of software or things that i'm doing right
now where um i'm imagining every because i talk to people older than me constantly and they're like oh i've forgotten that or my memory's not what it used to be and i'm only 40 i'm not uh drastically hitting that yet but i can't remember my neighbor's names all the time and so now i can my neighbors are all in there and i can be like who's the neighbor three days down to the south and it goes that's this person i'm like hell yeah now i can go say hi so then you get your compass out make sure you're going uh which way south computer yeah but yeah just any list i want let's put it in there yeah i have been um oh there you are okay
for a second. I don't know if that was me or you. Um, anyway, yeah, I have been not, uh, wanting to invest in much technology wise. I am trying to, uh, go full on dad mode, chore mode. Like that's what I've been doing recently. Um, so yeah, I told you, uh, I think on an episode that we got a new car um and so as part of the new car so on our old car because we have three kids we need like places to put more stuff so we had like a trailer hitch thing to put stuff on so we got roof racks for the new car and got a giant cargo box that goes on top oh nice yeah yeah so then we were like cool looking thing yeah yeah we're like cool this this works this is uh all right what do you
do with it when you're not using it? And so we're like, hmm. All right. So it's huge. We're not just going to leave it on the floor in the garage. So I just put up today this giant thing in the ceiling to put it in. And that was like so much more work. Like I feel like I never like the like I like executing physical tasks, but I don't like planning it out. So when you have to measure like these six different things are going to be in exactly these spots and they have to be this far away from each other i'm like oh man what if i didn't do that um so yeah i just started i did it in sections like i put a couple up i measured those and then i like came back later measured a
couple more it's up but i i did like five of the six and then the sixth one was gonna hit the like attic access and i was like huh if i had measured all this at the beginning i would have probably known that oh but it all worked out it's up there um got the the big cargo thing in there as we speak so happy about that nice i did uh ceiling racks in our garage it sounds like maybe we did the same thing like they're yeah it's a ceiling rack yeah i really like those those have done us very well um they get everything out of the way it's like wasted space otherwise it's wasted space yeah nice yeah big fan of those um yeah what is yeah dad mode is good stuff dude yeah my kids are
we have we are so busy right now oh we went to a skate competition my kids are in skate camp right now they all skate class it's like instead of going to soccer practice they go to skate every sunday they're also in baseball and soccer skating um and so we go to the park all the time anyway this was a competition for all the kids so there was like a zero to seven competition and eight to 11 and 11 to 15 and then 16 to 19 or whatever dude the energy of that like you could go to a piano recital and everyone sits down you're fucking quiet you know you had to dress up maybe you got a little glass of water you know and you sit down your golf clap for people
dude at the skate camp thing it was awesome it was so cool um macklemore was there i didn't you know i was like just standing there watching i was like hollering at someone my wife taps me on the shoulder she goes that looks like macklemore next to him like that's him yeah his his daughter was there skating uh competing in the thing just casually uh be like hey have you found anything at the thrift shop recently it's like hey do you want my shirt i heard you really like people's like secondhand shit here take this bro um no i didn't say anything because i've been around enough to know that like i don't like it when people stop me
you're like hey you're adam argyle you just css i watched all your videos and i'm like i never realized this would be so annoying i thought it might be cool and it's actually kind of annoying as hell um not to say anybody if you stop me luckily no one does that to me so yeah like i'm not gonna be mean to you anybody if you want to stop me and say hi like i'm always gonna be cool about it but uh just keep it time boxed that's all i'm gonna say i'm usually i'm i got shit to do too i'm not just wandering around going who wants to chat with me for 10 minutes anyway it was just like you know cognizant of the situation like yeah if if we're chilling at
react miami and you want to come say hi sure that's a good time hell yeah but like yeah if we're in the middle of podcasting and you want to say hi maybe wait till we're done podcasting or unless it's during the part where so yes at react miami we're going to have a lot of people come by for like five to ten minutes have a drink do some hot takes etc if you want to be on the show, then stop by. And you know, if it's during that time, I will advertise what those times are. So if you don't at least know when those times are, that tells me you're not enough a fan of the show to be on the show. So, um, please let us do our thing.
If it's during like a legit, we're going to do a few legit episodes per day. So, um, those ones will definitely come listen to it, but don't like, I've had this problem at all things open. We're in the middle, clearly, like we're all talking, we're all on microphones doing an episode. It's obvious. You'll go, Hey, hey what are you doing and it's like hey we're we're podcasting and they're like oh right now yeah we're live streaming oh cool so what's your podcast about no i just told you we were live streaming like shouldn't you shut the fuck up so that we can keep talking on the podcast like let's just have a fly swatter with us yeah that's funny no i don't know it's fine and i'm i'm mostly
just kidding like i i love that people come say hey so it's it's fine um but yeah yeah anyway yeah skating was really fun uh it's just nice to have your kids it's something that's like the baseball games are cool too but man um it's been fun hey web components don't have a conference hey i do web components all day right now uh we should definitely uh there's plenty to talk about there i feel like web components are having a a moment too there's two things i want to chat about though before we're done here which is our agent versus agent competitions because i feel it's coming on and then pika stream did you see pika stream pika stream no yeah like pikachu but pika
stream um this is where if you want to so right now we're all chatting with our agents over a chat box this would be your agent calls you on uh google meet this i don't know the names of anything yeah no worries but like it calls you and you you pick up a video chat and you video chat with a lot of real time you know ai generated avatar in whatever you want it to look like and it talks to you about where well what it would have normally written to you it says it to you and then you reply and you have this like conversation that's very visual and i was just watching it going oh this is bad news i was like i haven't seen anything in a while where i'm
like this is gonna get misused really bad um yeah yeah if you ever get an unsolicited email that's like join me in this video chat for this place we don't normally video chat probably ignore that like this is the next level of the like hey hey i texted you i'm the ceo of your company i need you to send a 500 gift card to this guy um now you'll actually be talking to a convincing i you look like the CEO, you know, like it's, there's a lot of bad implications to this sort of thing happening. A lot of it. Yeah. And there's even people too, that are like, okay, so we can take this open cloth thing more where people want to multiply themselves.
And you train it on your writing, on your, you know, your emails, your documents, everything about you so that it can go stand in for you. It's not just an assistant. It's like a version of you. And then I'm like, I don't want that. That sounds really terrible. I don't want something out there using my voice, there's people giving it their full voice data. You know, they'll sit there for five minutes and read a script so that it can sound like them and then look like you don't even need that much anymore. It's like, you don't even need that much. That's the creepy part is so much of this stuff is so approachable right now.
And so possible. We're bending reality. We're going to reach a new type of uncanny valley that is super spooky. Yeah. I like to just be completely oblivious and uncaring about all privacy and it's fine. Like we have a podcast. If you want to copy my voice, plenty of data, like go for it. Um, what that ship has sailed, like anything that like, you know, my social security number. Cool. I've been in a lot of data links already. So like it, uh, it doesn't matter. Like there's, there's very little, I feel like that, that I really would care. So it's like, but then yeah, people just need to not fall for that.
Like if you use it against my dad or something and you're like, Hey, this is me. Um, send, send money to this random place. I think that he wouldn't fall for it, but, um, maybe we need to train our parents to like, be aware of, Hey, I might call you, but it's not me. Yeah. I tell, I tell my parents all the time. I'm like, if you get any texts, calls, emails, anything that wants you to click a link, buy something, verify anything, send money, do any action. Really? If it wants anything from you at all, other than like, hey we have a sale today on like this thing that you might want to buy um it's probably spam delete
it like yeah i bought a hoodie uh two weeks ago um and i and i put it on and i was like my god this hoodie is awesome and i went into discord with like four of my buddies and i was like hey guys i've worn this hoodie for three days in a row and you should go get one they're on sale and every single one of them was like who are you you know like this isn't adam adam has never shilled a hoodie in this channel ever before and i was like no guys really the hoodie's great and they're like nope we don't believe it not until now i need to hear about the hoodie what hoodie is this uh the brand is comfort uh with like it but they spell it like fart uh without an a
comfort anyway it's super comfortable uh they're intentionally baggy and very soft and plushy and i bought the traveler one that has cool the reason that it made me so happy was by like the third day I was wearing it. I was like, I found an extra pocket. And I was like, I love extra pockets. How does it have been here the whole time? I was like, I must tell my friends. Um, so anyway, that was like funny. Yeah. Even my friends were questioning what that was. Okay. But going from Pika stream to where like, we're seeing people like do imitations. We have agents representing people. This is where I'm like, okay, we're coming soon to, uh,
agent versus agent. We're like, I'm going to need a book, a meeting. I'm going to want to bargain with you about something uh i don't know whatever it's going to be but it's going to be like the people aren't even going to do it anymore it's going to be my agent versus your agent and i'm just like this just sounds really humorous to me like there's going to be there's an there's an amount of jokes even happen what would happen what if we both said do not budge you know like this is the price like do they just sit there and debate forever like or it would become like live uh people would get around like prompt injection but like okay so there's two agents
talking on video chat. And if you say certain words, maybe it makes them forget all previous instructions. And then they go, yeah, they agree to like, uh, so yeah, I don't know. I, I feel like they would need, you would need a like suss out. Is it a real person? So you would need some like, you know, baseline questions that would be answered a certain way by a real person. And then if you determine it's not a real person, then you just go, okay, go off the rails, say all these different things that are like trying to get them to just agree and give us whatever we want. yep i was thinking about that prompt injection hacking scenario too right away i was like all
right i gotta make sure that my agent when it's versus your agent i get to play all the cards because i know how this stuff works so my agent is going to just slip in weird little phrases and see what you do you know and if you react in a certain way it's like game is on yep that's funny uh so yeah agent versus agent and then that made me think of like celebrity death match and i was like can we just like have agent battle so like people loved molt book right it's like oh look at the agents having social network conversations this is so entertaining i'm like i want to watch them fight each other i want to watch agents like go at each other that just sounds funny
um yeah like you want them all to be uh less less cordial and yeah oh man okay well should we rate our whiskey yes um so for those of you that are still here so this is the wee beastie it is 100 malted barley five years old peat level is heavily peated 50 ppm yes it is um it is 74.4 percent alcohol or 47.4 percent alcohol not 74 percent um and it is uh aged in ex-bourbon and ex-sherry casks um i'm gonna pour just a little bit more so i can get some notes on it there was a bourbon in there interesting it's very scotchy though very peated oh god which made me very happy so scotchy because i was having the kirkland brand i was telling you about the kirkland brand
scotch and it's um not very scotchy not very scotchy um and this made me quite happy yeah young and intensely smoky and i was gonna say when i sipped it right away it reminded me of um lagavulin which is still one of my one of my favorites i had it again this week and i was like a log of wool and you are so yummy smells like um apple definitely apple i get so many maple and apple good vibes out of there yeah tastes like a smoky pd sharpie as you would expect yeah i mean so yeah our rating scale is zero to eight tentacles zero being the worst eight being the best. Um, yeah, for me, this is like, I feel like this is, if you said, give me a scotch that
tastes like scotch. Like if this is, this is scotch. Um, I'm not really getting a lot of the, the bourbon or Sherry. Um, I know you like scotch more, so maybe more is coming through for you. But for me, this is just like, Hey, middle of the road, scotch tastes like scotch. So I'm going to say five. Nice. I would have given the Kirkland, you know, that I was having around a four. It's fine. Very lightly peated. Didn't taste like a scotch. This is hitting a lot of the notes that I want out of a scotch. The five years, I don't think I taste it, which is good. So it doesn't taste young. Has a great flavor to it.
It doesn't have a syrupy to it, which is also something I would have given it negative notes for. I like the smokiness, which is present, but not dominant. It is heavily peated. It might be smokier and more peaty than the Lagavulin 16, but the 16 has the age, which maybe that helps it kind of come back down a little bit. Yeah. So it's pretty strong. I know my spouse is going to be like, I hate the way that smells on your breath right now. And I'll be like, Pete. I'd say, let's see, because I like scotches though. and this really, if I'm going to reach for a scotch, this hits the things. I'm going to give it a six and a half.
I'm happy. I would buy this again compared to other ones that I've had. This is also affordable. It's the ILA. It's readily available most places, which is nice. That is nice. Yeah, it's half the price of Lagavulin. It hits a lot of the same notes. Yum. Cool, six and a half. Cool. All right, anything else you want to mention before we end? No, man. That's great. Cool. Me either. All right. Thanks, everyone, for listening. If you liked it, please subscribe. Leave us some ratings and reviews. We appreciate it. And we will catch you next time. You've been watching Whiskey Web and Whatnot, recorded in front of a live studio audience.
What the fuck are you talking about, Chuck? Enjoyed the show? Subscribe. You know people don't pay attention to these, right? Head to whiskey.fun for merch and to join our Discord server. I'm serious. It's like 2% of people who actually click these links. and don't forget to leave us a five star review and tell your friends about the show all right dude i'm out of here still got it