events/2026-03-26-front-end-study-hall

Front End Study Hall #049 was an IndieWeb meetup on Zoom held on 2026-03-26.

• Archived from: https://etherpad.indieweb.org/2026-03-26-front-end-study-hall

Front End Study Hall #049

Mar 26, 2026

Participants

• Joe Crawford https://artlung.com/
• Naty S https://burgeonlab.com
• Jeremy Cherfas
• Thomas Vander Wal https://vanderwal.net
• Template:JonasO https://www.JonasOlson.se
• Template:webcraftsman https://jeffbridgforth.com
• Tantek Çelik https://tantek.com/
• jo
• Emily M

Joe's Background

• FrontPage 97! It is hard to believe it's been 30 years siince this was boxed software one could buy down at your local electronics store. https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/software/microsoft-frontpage-97-in-1996
  • There are still folks running FrontPage
  • https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/software/microsoft-frontpage-97-in-1996
  • Famously known for not great code, dealing with code generated by Microsoft products was a piece of my own use of tools such as HTML Tidy https://www.w3.org/People/Raggett/tidy/
  • BBEdit has Tidy-like tools such as Markup > Tidy > Clean document, Convert to XHTML
  • Jeff remembers using FrontPage and inserting HTML and it consistently suppressing that code
  • Microsoft HTML authoring has consistently produced difficult to read and work with HTML code
  • browser compatibility (at the time Netscape vs Internet Explorer) was an issue

Question: Have we solved the WYSIWYG problem?

• No! Wix is the same thing!
• WordPress is the same thing!
• SquareSpace has the same issue
• Dreamweaver
  • https://www.webdesignmuseum.org/software/macromedia-dreamweaver-1-2-in-1998
  • Adobe Contribute was a way to *limit* editablility to allow folks with websites to update their sites
• A web page is a blank canvas how do you create a tool that can allow someone to use a WYSIWYG view of pages?
• Figma! code export

• Tailwind limitation: hard to keep a site's look consistent

Counterpoint: in a cms with a templating system, Tailwind really helped me with an initial design. I then got rid of it, but it was a good start.

• Going with the grain of HTML to learn tools https://gomakethings.com/what-is-the-grain-of-the-web/
• Moving target of the web

Question: Why did we end up with React?

• • History of React?
• React Documentary: https://youtu.be/8pDqJVdNa44?si=6Fer8fDnvMWPk9lr
  • • Facebook? Facebooks motivations
  • Andy Bell has an article "if it works for you that's great" http://piccalil.li/blog/if-it-works-its-right
• Rails pitch
• React won the battle royale of SPA frameworks (Ember.js, Angular.js, etc.)
• Cargo cult effect in web framework/library adoption (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_programming)
• non-dev managers asking for React experience in job descriptions -> more people learning react
• coding bootcamps arising to meet the demand of new web devs wanting to quickly learn react to apply to jobs
• more jobs asking for React experience because of the greater supply of React web devs, feedback loop

• Social network, TODO app
  • How quickly can I spin up a website which is very dynamic and has personalization

• jQuery, Angular, Ember, Knockout
• Bootcamps
• Rails as first framework doing a good job marketing itself
• Twitter Bootstrap - CSS (and some JS) to create and build quickly

• Interactive JavaScript / Vanilla JavaScript
  • Messy middle space of adding complexity in an application

• Tradeoff of using a framework?
• Difficilty of updating existing code targeting multiple platforms

Page vs Application?

• James wrote a programming language with interrelated
  • Complexity for interactive elements!
• Dilemma - projects start as a small thing, and evolve?
  • We are not the same developer we were when we wrote the ortiginal code!
  • projects grow in ways that are unpredictable

• What costs an I willing to pay as part of developing?

Question: What other areas of human endeavor can are similar?

• Cooking / Gardening
  • Start unskilled, develop experience, you want to go back and say "why on earth did I not realize this would create shade" - the joy of the thing is in the development - you cannot plan for it - Jeremy
    • websites can be digital gardens! digital garden
  • Angelo has plants, succulents - he has plants from other people's gardens - portable bits of pieces - copy succulent by reference
    • Haas avocados are clones, not a clone mutation of an existing
    • WordPress as ecosystem - adding! adding to complex system, can break it

• • Buy off the shelf gardening tools

• Construction of homes - dynamic systems

• IndieWeb Book Club this month:
  • https://www.nicksimson.com/posts/2026-the-timeless-way-of-building.html
    • Patterns, things growing, a good building understands its purpose
  • A Pattern Language - about architecture
    • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Pattern_Language
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_design_pattern
  • https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_Buildings_Learn - relevant
  • shearing layers

• Tantek Çelik's comment about slider switch reminded Naty of https://grumpy.website/ - Naty
  • Antipatterns galore!

• Software updates - and the voltility of software
• UK update for legal requiring ID for customization

• Every website has a feeling - sometimes the feeling is quite bad - why am I seeing things?

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pwn2Own

What will you take away from this conversation?

• Take responsibility for what you build! Learn from lessons, live with what you put out there
• I'm not alone with what I feel about software! There's nothing unique about software - new
• Multiple opposting beliefs can coexist - compromises in creating things exist and that's normal
• The difference between native open landscape and importance of native and simple - keep it to that and they know each other - the absolute madness of a parcel with cacti and everything else - there's gotta be a better way - Debian as a way to approach complexity - simple self-sustainable

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Please note that all contributions to this pad and other IndieWebCamp documents are considered to be released under the public domain according to CC0.

Group Photo 2026-03-26