Former Jerusalem Deputy Mayor Fleur Hassan-Nahoum joins the J100 podcast for a wide-ranging conversation about Israel’s battle over global narratives, growing hostility toward Jewish students on Western campuses, the future of Diaspora Jewry, Netanyahu and Israeli politics, Haredi integration, Iran, women in leadership, and what separates genuine leadership from performance.
Recorded earlier at The Algemeiner’s New York offices.
Condensed Transcript
DAVID M. COHEN: Let’s start with your background. How did you get from Gibraltar to Israeli politics?
FLEUR HASSAN-NAHOUM: I grew up in Gibraltar in a Sephardi Jewish family. My mother was from Tangier, Morocco, and my father’s family had been in Gibraltar for centuries. My father was a politician, so politics was something I grew up around. At 18, I left for King’s College London, studied law, became a barrister, and met my husband. We both wanted to live in Israel. I had first visited when I was 14 and became fascinated by Jewish self-determination, so in 2001 we moved to Israel — right in the middle of the Second Intifada.
DAVID: That’s an extraordinary moment to arrive.
FLEUR: Bombs were going off on buses and in restaurants. My husband and I would walk into restaurants and actually discuss where to sit in case a suicide bomber came in. People thought we were crazy for moving there, but I never considered leaving. Before the Second Intifada, I believed the conflict was basically territorial: give the Palestinians a state and let everyone live in peace. Over time, I came to see it as more ideological — an opposition to Jewish sovereignty itself.
DAVID: How did politics come into the picture?
FLEUR: I first worked in the nonprofit world, including for the Joint Distribution Committee, which exposed me to Israel’s social gaps. Later I became a strategic communications consultant for startups, academics and researchers, which showed me Israel’s extraordinary strengths in science, technology and entrepreneurship. Eventually I was asked to help a Jerusalem political party with its messaging. They then asked me to run with them. I joined the City Council and ultimately became deputy mayor, overseeing foreign relations, tourism and economic development. I used to say I wanted to be the “foreign minister of Jerusalem.”
DAVID: You were also paying attention to antisemitism on Western campuses before October 7.
FLEUR: Yes. I would arrive to speak at universities and discover there were armed guards there to protect me. When I was at university, I headed the Jewish society and we debated Palestinians. We disagreed, but nobody needed armed security. Something had become very rotten on campuses before October 7; afterward it simply became blatant. At the same time, I knew how strong Israeli universities were and kept wondering why more Jewish students weren’t studying there. That eventually became part of the idea behind Campus Israel.
DAVID: Where were you on October 7?
FLEUR: At home in Jerusalem. My daughter woke me because there was a siren. Jerusalem rarely gets them, so I knew something serious was happening. I opened my phone even though it was Shabbat and started getting messages from Arab journalist friends. Then I turned on the television and watched the massacre unfolding in real time. Suddenly my phone rang. It was the BBC.
I remember thinking: Why is the BBC calling the deputy mayor of Jerusalem? Then I realized nobody else was answering. Israeli spokespeople simply weren’t available. I had to decide whether to pick up on Shabbat, and I thought: We’re at war. I’m not a soldier, but I can do this. So I answered. From there, I essentially became an unofficial spokesperson until the foreign minister formally asked me to help.
DAVID: How does Israel find itself so unprepared for the communications battle?
FLEUR: I still don’t think the Israeli government fully understands that we’re fighting a narrative war.
DAVID: But Netanyahu is one of Israel’s greatest communicators.
FLEUR: He is, and that may actually be part of the problem. If the communications strategy becomes Netanyahu speaking at the UN or Congress, that is not the same as building an infrastructure. Israel needs capable people communicating constantly across languages, countries and audiences. You cannot build the communications strategy of an entire country around one person, however talented he is.
DAVID: You’re critical of Netanyahu, but you also clearly respect him.
FLEUR: Absolutely. He is extraordinarily intelligent and knowledgeable. But I believe in term limits. When one person stays in power that long, the entire system starts revolving around them and it becomes harder for the next generation of leaders to develop. I can respect his abilities while believing that isn’t healthy for democracy.
DAVID: Would you run nationally yourself?
FLEUR: Yes, under the right circumstances. But I don’t want to become a member of Knesset just for the title. I want to have influence. And while Netanyahu dominates the system so completely, there isn’t much room for other people to build real power.
DAVID: What is your assessment of his leadership since October 7?
FLEUR: He has to take some responsibility for October 7, and I think Israel failed badly on narrative warfare. But would I have wanted somebody else managing this incredibly complicated multi-front war while navigating two different American administrations? Probably not. Both things can be true.
DAVID: Let’s talk about Campus Israel. Why should an American Jewish student consider university in Israel?
FLEUR: There are many full undergraduate and postgraduate programs taught in English, and most people simply don’t know about them. You can get an excellent education, often for dramatically less money than at an expensive American university, while entering Israel’s ecosystem of research, technology, entrepreneurship and Jewish life.
And after what has happened on American campuses, I think students should broaden the question. If you’re already reconsidering where you want to study, why only look at another American university? Why not Israel?
Even if those students eventually return to America, they come back far more connected to Israel and much more confident in their Jewish identity. They can become Jewish leaders and ambassadors. That is a victory too.
DAVID: Does a strong Diaspora still matter?
FLEUR: Of course, though it depends where. I’m deeply worried about places like Britain and France. America still feels different. There are extraordinarily vibrant Jewish communities here. But October 7 reminded us of something fundamental: we’re one family. We suffer there, you suffer here. When they come for one of us, they come for all of us. The rest is geography.
DAVID: You’ve spoken about the challenges of being both a woman and an immigrant in Israeli politics.
FLEUR: Israel does not do nearly well enough with women in political leadership. But being an immigrant also creates challenges because there is a cultural language you don’t automatically speak if you didn’t grow up in Israel — the army experience, social references, networks. I came as an adult and didn’t serve in the army. That makes you different.
And politically, Israel has actually gone backward in some ways regarding women. We have extraordinary women in the military, business, academia and science, but too few with genuine political power.
DAVID: What do you make of the Haredi military-service debate?
FLEUR: There are two issues. The immediate problem is that Israel needs soldiers. The longer-term problem is economic. The Haredi population is growing rapidly, and Israel cannot indefinitely sustain a system where a growing portion of society participates too little in the workforce while receiving extensive public support.
The exemption system was created in a completely different demographic reality. Eventually Israel needs a new social contract with the Haredi community. The question is whether we create it before an economic crisis forces us to, or afterward.
DAVID: What do people misunderstand about communication and leadership?
FLEUR: They start with, “What do I want to say?” The better question is: Who am I speaking to? What matters to them? What are they afraid of? What language do they understand? It’s not about you. It’s about them.
Leadership works the same way. If you want to take people from point A to point B, you have to understand point A.
When I ran for Jerusalem City Council, I didn’t do a speaking tour. I did a listening tour. I would meet groups, ask questions and let them talk. Sometimes I barely said anything, yet afterward they would say, “Fleur was amazing.” What I had done was listen. I didn’t pretend to listen. I actually listened. Most people simply want to feel heard, and too many leaders forget that.
DAVID: Who shaped your own understanding of leadership?
FLEUR: My father. He was a major political figure in Gibraltar, but what I remember most was his humility. He never believed being important made him better than anyone else. My mother was different — incredibly strong and fearless — so I think I inherited something from both of them.
Margaret Thatcher was also important to me growing up. There were virtually no women in politics around me locally, but Britain had Thatcher and Queen Elizabeth. Seeing women occupy those positions matters when you’re a girl.
DAVID: Why do you think Israel still has so few women with real political power?
FLEUR: That’s one of my great frustrations. Israel has extraordinary women everywhere, but political power is different. Power isn’t handed to you. You have to take it. I hope the next generation of Israeli women understands that.
DAVID: People who mainly know you from publicly defending Israel might place you pretty firmly on the political right. What would surprise them?
FLEUR: I make no apology for being on the right, but when I was in Jerusalem government I worked extensively on economic development in Arab East Jerusalem. I’m actually deeply pluralistic in how I think about society.
I believe in giving people opportunity. Jerusalem is one city. If a huge part of its population is economically failing, everybody suffers.
And that reflects something larger. Everyone seems to go to sleep hoping the people they disagree with will disappear. The secular hope the religious disappear. The religious hope the secular disappear. The right wants the left gone. The left wants the right gone. Israelis and Palestinians can imagine the other side simply ceasing to exist.
Nobody is going anywhere.
Once you accept that, you’re forced to find ways to build bridges. People have seen me fighting for my people because my country has been at war. But that isn’t incompatible with spending years trying to figure out how fundamentally different people can live together.
In the end, they have to.
DAVID: Fleur, thank you very much for being here.
FLEUR: Thank you. I love the work The Algemeiner does. It’s an important voice, and I’m very happy to be here.
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