The Last Service Podcast explores the narratives of American churches that have closed, consolidated, or merged. But this isn’t a tale of despair; it’s a celebration of good endings, enduring legacies, and the courage to embrace new beginnings. American churches are closing at a pace faster than new ones are emerging, the need for thoughtful conversations around closures is more crucial than ever. By shedding light on the paths taken by these congregations, we aim to inspire and encourage church…
Subscribe:.rss.atom.json.md.m3u.pls
Live Last read · last published · next check
Saves to your Listen queue, to pick up on another day or another device.
What does it look like when a church ends well? In this episode of the Last Service Podcast, host Matt McGee sits down with Pastor Sara Olson-Smith, author of Eulogy for a Faithful Church, to tell the story of St. Peter Lutheran Church in North Plainfield, New Jersey. Sara was St. Peter's final pastor, arriving fresh out of seminary only to walk her congregation through one of the most spiritually…
Episode Overview What do you do when your church's budget doesn't match its values? Pastor Kevin Boyd of Legacy Church in Plano, Texas faced exactly that tension. With 36–42% of the budget going to facility overhead and only 14–17% to mission and ministry, something had to change. Rather than slowly adjusting line items over a decade, Pastor Boyd made a bold move: swap buildings with a neighboring…
As Season Two of The Last Service Podcast comes to a close, host Matt McGee sits down for a relaxed, wide-ranging “potluck conversation” with pastor, veteran, and discipleship leader James Floyd. This episode blends humor, hard-won wisdom, and deep theological reflection as they explore failure, identity, finishing well, church decline, and what it really means to follow Jesus beyond platforms and…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt sits down with Rev. Nancy Dolan, a Presbyterian pastor with 20+ years of corporate HR/organizational development experience, to walk through the remarkable and deeply pastoral journey of helping Kirk of the Lakes—a once-thriving suburban congregation—discern its future with honesty, courage, and hope. Nancy tells the full story: from the church’s…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt McGee sits down with songwriter, producer, and author Andrew Osenga to explore what decades of touring, worship leading, and church observation have taught him about the American church’s changing landscape. Osenga reflects on thirty years of visiting more than a thousand congregations—from small rural Bible churches to sprawling suburban…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt McGee welcomes back Dr. Will Willimon, former bishop in the United Methodist Church, professor at Duke Divinity School, and author of more than 70 books; for a candid conversation about his latest work, The Church We Carry: Loss, Leadership, and the Future of Our Church. Drawing from the story of his own home congregation in South Carolina, Dr.…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt talks with Joshua Gordon, pastor and author of How to Close a Church: Seven Steps to a Grace-Filled and Thoughtful Closing. Josh shares his story of serving at a church that eventually closed, what he learned from later shutting down his own ministry, and how endings, while painful, can become opportunities for healing and renewal. Together, they…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt McGee is joined by Rick Reinhard—consultant, urban planner, and national thought leader on the redevelopment of faith-based properties. Together, they dive deep into the reality behind the wave of church closures sweeping across North America and explore what congregations and communities can do before it’s too late. Rick shares his insights from…
Matt sits down with beloved preacher, bishop, and author Dr. Will Willimon to talk about what it means for churches to age gracefully—and even die faithfully. Drawing on decades of ministry, Willimon unpacks the crisis and opportunity of aging congregations, shares compelling stories of churches handing off their legacy, and invites us to rethink what “decline” really means. What You’ll Learn: Why…
In this insightful and heartfelt episode, Matt welcomes campus minister and author Casey Coston to discuss the challenges and beauty of a life spent in ministry. With over two decades of experience—from Ole Miss to the University of Delaware—Casey shares the inspiration behind his book Made Competent, and opens up about the trials of leadership, church decline, bivocational ministry, and…
In this powerful episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt sits down with Bruce Deel, CEO of City of Refuge, to explore an extraordinary story of transformation. Originally tasked with closing Mission Church at 14th Street, Bruce found himself in the midst of a divine calling to revitalize the church into a thriving ministry center. Discover how compassion, trust, and a willingness to adapt led to…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, author and speaker Michelle Van Loon discusses the realities of church closures, the challenges of leadership, and how congregations can embrace endings with faith and wisdom. Michelle shares insights from her Plough article "A Good Death for Dying Churches" and her personal experiences with church transitions, including the closure of Grace Bible…
In this episode of the Last Service Podcast, Matt welcomes Sam Rainer, pastor, church consultant, and president of Church Answers, for a candid discussion about the state of the American church. Together, they explore the challenges facing congregations today, from declining membership to generational shifts in engagement. Sam shares actionable insights on how churches can revitalize, stay…
🎙️ Episode Highlights In this special recap episode, host [Matt] reflects on the journey through Season 1 of The Last Service Podcast. Joined by his wife, Maureen, they dive into the heart of the podcast’s mission—exploring church closures, transitions, and the faithful endings that can lead to new beginnings. ✨ Key Topics Covered: Season Favorites: Episode 5: The heartfelt story of Rehoboth…
In this powerful season finale, Matt sits down with the legendary religion news reporter and author Bob Smietana to explore the pressing realities facing churches today. From demographic shifts to the challenges of revitalization, Bob shares insights from his acclaimed book, Reorganized Religion, and personal experiences with church closures. This episode is packed with heartfelt stories,…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt dives into a conversation with Reverend Dr. Katie Nix and Reverend Dr. Phil Blackwell, pastors who led two congregations through a unique journey of merger and renewal. They share the incredible challenges and blessings of bringing together two legacy churches into a unified, mission-focused community. This merger took place amidst the complexities…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, we dive into the profound journey of pastoral transitions with Matt Davis, host of the Life After Ministry Podcast. Matt shares his personal experiences of stepping away from ministry after a moral failure and navigating life outside the church. This episode explores the emotional and logistical challenges pastors face when leaving a church and provides…
In this powerful episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt continues his conversation with Reverend Lorrin Radzik as they explore the complexities of church closures. Lorrin shares her personal journey of closing multiple churches and the unique challenges faced when congregations are forced to confront their own mortality. Together, they dive into how pastors can lead through difficult decisions,…
In this raw and insightful episode, Matt sits down with Rev. Lorrin Radzik, a United Methodist pastor with a powerful story of navigating the complexities of ministry, church closure, and personal growth. Lorrin shares her experience leading a struggling congregation in Wisconsin, where she guided the church through the challenging decision to close after decades of decline. Her journey, filled…
In this compelling episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt interviews Dave Meserve, an experienced transitional pastor who has guided multiple churches through the difficult process of closing. Dave shares powerful stories and invaluable insights on how to approach church closures with compassion, wisdom, and a focus on spiritual health. Key Points: Dave's unique journey from traditional…
In this episode, host Matt interviews Gail Cafferata, author of "The Last Pastor" and a retired Episcopal priest who closed a church. Gail shares her personal experience closing a congregation and insights from her research surveying over 100 pastors who have gone through church closures. Key topics discussed: - Gail's background as a medical sociologist and Episcopal priest - The emotional and…
In this episode, we sit down with Mike Sares, director of Urban Skye, to discuss their unique approach to ministry outside traditional church structures. Mike shares insights from his extensive experience, including pastoring Scum of the Earth Church and working with various faith entrepreneurs. Key points covered: • Urban Skye acts as an umbrella organization for freelance pastors, providing…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt interviews Bart McDonald from the Southern Baptist of Texas Foundation about their innovative Jubilee Program. This program helps struggling churches preserve their assets and legacy while transitioning to new ministries or congregations. Key Points: The Jubilee Program is based on biblical principles from Leviticus and Deuteronomy It allows…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt McGee interviews Dr. Myles Werntz, Associate Professor of Theology at Abilene Christian University. They discuss the concept of scarcity in churches and how it's affecting congregations across denominations. Dr. Werntz shares insights from his recent Christianity Today article "Scarcity's Strange Gifts" and explores the challenges and…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt interviews Dr. Stanley Granberg, founder of Heritage 21, an organization dedicated to helping declining churches make critical decisions about their future. Dr. Granberg shares his extensive experience in church planting, missions, and organizational leadership, offering valuable insights into the challenges facing aging congregations. Key…
In this special "Potluck" episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt McGee catches up with his old friend, Dr. Jim Trammell, Associate Professor of Communication at High Point University, a frequent contributor to Baptist News Global, and deacon at Emerywood Baptist Church, to discuss the evolving role of media in modern church worship. They explore how technology and media shape…
Discover how the Dinner Church Collective is revitalizing the way we experience church and reach the unchurched. In this thought-provoking episode, Verlon Fosner shares his journey of transforming a dying church into a vibrant community centered around the simple act of gathering for a meal and engaging with the stories of Jesus. Learn about the sociological challenges facing modern churches, the…
Karl Vaters joins The Last Service Podcast to discuss the unique challenges and opportunities facing small churches. With over 40 years of pastoral experience and as the author of several books on small church ministry, Karl provides valuable insights to help small congregations thrive. Key Topics: - Defining what constitutes a "small church" - The obsession with big church models and church…
In this insightful episode, Matt talks with Erika Cole, known as the Church Attorney, about navigating the legal process of church closures and mergers. Erika provides a wealth of knowledge on checklist items, vital documents, legal steps, and wisdom for churches going through this transition. As churches across America continue to close at an alarming rate, having proper legal guidance is crucial…
In this episode, Matt is joined by Rev. Diane Kenaston, co-founder of The Good Friday Collaborative. They discuss how churches can approach the difficult process of closing, merging, or consolidating ministries faithfully and pastorally. Diane shares her own experience leading a church through a merger and the valuable lessons learned. She also unpacks the five stages of church closures outlined…
In this special "Potluck" episode of The Last Service Podcast, host Matt McGee is interviewed by his friend Michael Lomuscio about the origins of the podcast, the declining state of church attendance and membership, and what constitutes a good or bad church closing. Key Topics: Matt's background and what sparked his interest in researching closing churches Statistics on dropping church membership…
In this episode, Matt interviews John Muzyka, a church real estate expert, about how churches can navigate the end of their life cycle well. John provides wise counsel on assessing property needs, making tough decisions with church committees, finding the right realtor, and determining if the building still serves the church's mission. 3 takeaways for dying churches: 1. Think of your building as a…
In this episode, host Matt interviews Tom Sander, a longtime music minister who helped facilitate the merger between Ballast Point Baptist Church and Davis Islands Baptist Church (an extension of Idlewild Baptist) in Tampa, Florida in the early 2000s. Tom shares the story of how Ballast Point, despite having a healthy congregation, decided a merger was needed for revitalization and greater…
Welcome back to another insightful episode of The Last Service Podcast! Matt sits down with Pastor Ernie Wagoner from Sojourn Church in Marietta, GA. Pastor Ernie shares the story of planting Sojourn Church and is incredibly vulnerable about their early struggles. We learn the story of their unique merger with Paper Mill Road Baptist Church, a true merger of two congregations - one struggling to…
Welcome to another insightful episode of The Last Service Podcast! In this edition, your host Matt engages in a thought-provoking conversation with pastor and developer Mark Elsdon discussing his latest book, "Gone for Good? Negotiating the Coming Wave of Church Property Transition." 3 Takeaways for Dying Churches: Before you list your property for sale - consider how the land your church owns…
In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, listeners are taken on a poignant journey through the life of Rehoboth Presbyterian Church, as recounted by Rev. AJ Mealor. Having grown up in the close-knit community and later being ordained there, Rev. Mealor shares the deeply personal story of his lifelong connection with Rehoboth. 3 Takeaways for a Dying Church: A church's legacy is created through…
Introduction: Join us in this enlightening episode of The Last Service Podcast as Matt sits down with Pastor Joe McClellan of The Point Church, based in Pensacola, FL. In this exclusive interview, we dive into the extraordinary tale of how First Baptist Church in Elberta, AL, generously passed on their building to The Point Church. Get ready to uncover the untold story of collaboration, faith, and…
Introduction: In this episode of The Last Service Podcast, your host Matt delves into an inspiring conversation with Pastor Mike Woods, the final pastor of First Baptist Church, Elberta, Alabama. Join us as Pastor Mike unravels the remarkable story of how his congregation made a profound decision to donate their cherished building to another congregation. Discover the heartwarming journey of…
In this episode, Claire Bamberg shares wisdom learned from helping many congregations find a path forward. We learn about her process to guide churches in letting go of the past and embracing a new beginning. She is the founder of Potentials Customized Coaching and Consulting. 3 Takeaways for Dying Churches: Churches must often die to bring about a new life of ministry. The new can't begin until…
In this insightful episode of The Last Service Podcast, Matt sits down with Pastor Stephen Gray, the esteemed author of "Legacy Churches." Join us as we delve into the pages of Pastor Gray's book and explore his profound insights on the challenges and triumphs of legacy churches. 3 Takeaways for Dying Churches: No individual local church lasts forever. Ending is not failing God. Existing without…
COMING SOON: The Last Service Podcast explores the narratives of American churches that have closed, consolidated, or merged. It's a celebration of good endings, enduring legacies, and the courage to embrace new beginnings. Join us as we delve into the lives of these churches, sharing stories that resonate with wisdom, and a commitment to ending well. Every episode is a testament to the hope that…
