Danny welcomes Michael Griffin and Sonsoles Costero-Quiroga for a conversation on the Neoplatonic scale of virtues, a late antique ladder of formation that begins with nature, habituation, and civic harmony before moving toward purification, contemplation, and theurgy. Together they show how virtue was not merely a moral theory, but a lifelong philosophical education of body, soul, community, and attention. This education prepares the soul to recognize divine patterns and eventually pass beyond books into ritual, silence, and participation in the divine.
Brief Overview:
Start- 4:50: Part 1: Introduction to the authors and the topic: The Scale of Virtues
4:51-14:35: Part 2: The first two steps or stages in the scale. The first third of the ascent. Physical training followed by customs and habits
14:36-33:49: Part 3: The next three steps or stages in the scale: The philosophical ones: Harmonization, purification, contemplation
Keywords:
Terms/Topics: Scale of virtues, virtue ethics, ancient philosophy, ancient education, nature vs. nurture, character formation, moderation, catharsis, contemplation, ancient psychology
Philosophers Solo: Plotinus, Olympiodorus
Philosophers and Texts: Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics, Damascius’ Phaedo Commentary, Hermias’ Commentary on the Phaedrus, Plato’s Phaedo, Plato’s Republic, Porphyry On Abstinence from Killing Animals, Proclus’ Commentary on Alcibiades I, Proclus’ Commentary on the Republic,
Detailed Overview
Start- 1:00: Introductions of the guests and the topic
1:00-2:40: Michael introduces the scale of virtues
2:40- 3:50: Sonsoles relates it to community, ancient education (paideia)
3:50-4:50: Danny asks about the debate that training in the scale of virtues begins in early youth as opposed to late in life.
4:50- 5:55: Sonsoles makes a Proclus connection, a Plotinus connection, discusses physical training, then customs, habits
5:55-7:55: Michael relates to nature (phusis) and nurture; In what sense nature is first. Habituation is second.
7:55-8:35: Sonsoles compares the physical to substratum, gardening
8:35- 10:15: Danny relates to Proclus’ Commentary on Alcibiades I, the Republic, the importance of training and habituation, lest someone with great physical gifts be tempted
10:15 -10:50: Danny turns to Aristotle, where habit is all important. Asks for their thoughts.
10:50 -12:50: Michael: Damascius’ Phaedo Commentary, classic place to get the list of the scale—mentions Aristotle’s Nicomachean Ethics. Nature could become virtue or the potential to harm, depending on how the habits are directed; Olympiodorus reference
12:50 -14:00: Sonsoles: Just having the skill doesn’t mean it will be used for a good thing
14:00 -14:35: Danny relates this to carving a statue. Asks about the next step: constitutional.
14:35-18:10: Michael: So far, the first two are more externally imposed, pre-philosophical. This is more philosophical. Later, the post-philosophical. Mentions Republic book 4. Trying to bring about harmony of thinking, feeling, desiring. Beginning of meaningful work on one’s own. Our inner city (polis), reflective on the outside of us
18:10-20:00: Sonsoles: The importance of harmonization. We need moderation, we need to discover ourselves, with others in community; Proclus’ Commentary on the Republic; By comparing to others, they learn who they are. There’s phronesis (practical wisdom) and moderation.
20:00 – 22:30: Danny: Recognize that the Republic is an analogy for the soul about how to harmonize ourselves, about how to fight and die for the “community” within us. Can go off the rails without practicing purification.
22:30- 26:26: Michael: This is the purificatory, or catharsis. Jettisoning emotions and appetites? That might have some grounding in the Phaedo. However, logos does not just mean rationality. It means conscience, reckoning, value, and has other meanings. Not just about divorcing reason from the others. Sea god Glaucus; Image of the soul attached to the body and detached from it in Republic book 10; Hermias, Commentary on the Phaedrus; No longer the case that 3 parts or aspects are in harmony, but they’re all singing the same song.
26:30-29:20: Sonsoles: On the need for purification; A first century anecdote! Porphyry, treatise On Abstinence from Killing Animals (3rd cent) is about purification. The way to purify is not to honor the gods with blood.
29:20-31:20: Danny: On purified forms of virtues
31:20-33:49: Michael: Number 5, the second stage of 3, Theoria/theoretike; to witness/to observe/to really see. It’s not about abstract theories. Catharsis has somehow really purified the eye of the soul so that we can really see. Pattern recognition. Seeing what is beautiful, elegant, true.
33:50-33:38: Sonsoles: This step has often been translated as contemplation; Comments on this, relates to religious traditions; This step really has eliminated some kind of filter your mind has always had there in the way.
33:39-37:30: Danny: Elaborates on why theoria is not abstract; why it’s exciting; Why the contemplative is about putting pieces together, a leap into the theurgic, into inspiration, into something demiurgic. Indicates they will not be able to finish this in this podcast.
37:30- 39:15: Sonsoles: The contemplative is like looking at the edge. The next one is really interesting.
39:15-end: Conclusion.
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