Reading · Joanne Lockwood

Podcast cover for “Inclusion Bites” featuring guest Celeste Warren, episode titled “Equity By Design,” hosted by Joanne Lockwood, with colourful geometric background.

How Acts of Inclusion Tear Down Barriers and Build Belonging

Celeste illuminates the complexities of equity by design, exploring barriers, bias, and the urgent need for authentic inclusion—advocating a paradigm where individual differences are not only recognised, but leveraged for collective success.

In this episode of The Inclusion Bites Podcast, Joanne Lockwood invites Celeste Warren to explore the concept of “Equity by Design” and its transformative power in embedding inclusion and belonging within organisations. Celeste draws from her wealth of experience in diversity, equity, and inclusion, reflecting on her formative years as the daughter of the first Black teacher and principal in her Pennsylvania hometown. Together, Joanne and Celeste dissect the societal burden placed on marginalised groups and challenge the persistent misconception that equitable practices lower standards. They examine affinity bias, share stories of resilience, and discuss how acts of equity must be tailored to meet individual needs, ultimately fostering an environment where all can thrive.

Celeste Warren is a respected strategist, author, and founder of Celeste Warren Consulting, bringing over three decades of experience in building inclusive cultures. Formerly a Chief Diversity Inclusion Officer at a Fortune 50 company, Celeste’s superpower is her capacity to connect strategic models with human experiences, making complex concepts approachable and actionable for leaders. Her pragmatic approach is rooted in the lessons learned during her upbringing, as she witnessed first-hand both the struggles and triumphs of her father's journey against adversity in education. Celeste’s insights blend practical expertise with heart, striving to cultivate workplaces where authenticity and dignity are fundamental, regardless of background.

Throughout their conversation, Joanne and Celeste address the ongoing pushback against diversity and inclusion, emphasising the necessity of meaningful dialogue and education to challenge ingrained biases. They discuss the persistent myths around diversity hiring and explain, through relatable analogies, how equity is not about preferential treatment but about breaking down unseen barriers. The episode offers practical guidance for leaders and change-makers, highlighting the importance of aligning opportunity with lived experience and supporting individuals to believe in themselves as those barriers are dismantled.

The key takeaway from this episode is that achieving true equity is a collective journey, requiring both acts of equity and the dismantling of historic obstacles. Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their role in driving change and to recognise that when equity is practised effectively, everyone wins. This conversation is essential listening for anyone committed to inclusion, as it imparts wisdom, challenge, and inspiration for building genuinely equitable workplaces.

Published: 12.06.2026

Recorded: 04.02.2026

Duration: 0:51:02

Shownotes:

AI Extracts and Interpretations
The Inclusion Bites Podcast #212: Equity by Design — app.castmagic.io
Other Links
SEE Change Happen: The Inclusive Culture Experts — seechangehappen.co.uk
Inclusion Bites Podcast on YouTube

Viral Topic: Life Before Social Media
“And I think growing up, we had the opportunity to think things through, at least that’s kind of what I was taught, you know, think things through, think about the consequences of your actions.”
— Celeste Warren [00:05:17 → 00:05:29]

Viral Topic: Respectful Conversations
“But you have to be able to have productive conversations about those different perspectives in a way that respects other people’s perspectives and in a way that doesn’t harm other people in a way that doesn’t belittle other people in a way that doesn’t say that because you believe that or you feel that you’re less than and you don’t count and you shouldn’t count, your beliefs shouldn’t count for anything.”
— Celeste Warren [00:17:45 → 00:18:14]

Viral Topic – Diversity and Standards: “the first thing that’s going through their head is that you’re lowering the standard of performance or quality of a role that that person is gone into.”
— Celeste Warren [00:20:59 → 00:21:10]

Challenging Hiring Bias: “And I would politely stop the conversation there and say to the manager, well, why did you feel a need to say that? After the recruiter said, I want to make sure that I’m bringing you a slate of candidates that are from all different walks of life, all different identities, et cetera.”
— Celeste Warren [00:21:39 → 00:21:55]

Viral Topic: Equity and Disruption
Quote: “The acts of equity are causing disruption because the person who was standing on one rock in the first illustration and still standing on one rock in the second, but they’re looking to their right and they’re saying, well, how come they have three rocks, they have two rocks and I still have one.”
— Celeste Warren [00:26:43 → 00:26:59]

Viral Topic: Equity and Active Allyship: “We don’t want you to just intellectualise it, we want you to be active allies. We want you to get in the boat, we want you to grab an oar and we want you to row with us and help us to get up the river so we can get to that third illustration where the rocks are not needed, the fence is torn down and then everybody can see the beautiful mountains and even that person that could see over the fence the whole time with a fence torn down, their aperture has been widened and broadened because now they’re able to see not just the top, but they’re able to see other things that maybe that fence was obstructing and they didn’t even realise it.”
— Celeste Warren [00:28:30 → 00:29:05]

Mindset and Behavioural Change for Inclusion: “if we want, want an inclusive society, you have to forget about or rewire what mom and dad and Auntie and Granddad told you coming up. That’s not an easy conversation by any means, but it’s one that’s necessary in order for us to get to that third illustration.”
— Celeste Warren [00:31:24 → 00:31:42]

Viral Topic: The Power of ‘Why’ in the Modern Workplace: “as the new generations come into the workplaces, they have this perspective that is so refreshing because they’re not afraid to ask the question why, which is, which is good because that helps us to sort of break that cycle of doing it, because that’s the way that we’ve always done it and be able to think about new. Because we’re only going to survive if we, if we nurture innovation and creativity, that’s the only way that, that societies survive and thrive.”
— Celeste Warren [00:35:02 → 00:37:24]

Global Politics: “And so you see that, that there’s this pendulum that swings, right? And whenever there is a rise in social activism like we saw in 2020, then all of a sudden the pendulum starts swinging to conservatism. And that’s kind of what we, what we saw with all of the elections in 2024, what we’ve seen in 2025 in many, many, many countries. And so now in, you know, history says that there’s going to be a pendulum and it’s going to swing back again too in future years.”
— Celeste Warren [00:40:49 → 00:41:19]

Viral Topic: Reframing Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion
Quote: “When I say the word inclusion and inclusive society, where everyone feels a sense of belonging and feels valued for who they are, however they identify… when I use the word equity, which basically is Management 101, Leadership 101, Business 101, meeting people where they are understanding those differences and then helping them to remove obstacles and barriers that are getting in the way for them being able to have access to opportunities that everybody is has a right to have.”
— Celeste Warren [00:47:09 → 00:47:27]

Definition: Affinity bias is the tendency for individuals to favour, trust, or engage with others who appear similar to themselves in characteristics such as background, identity, or attitudes.
Relevance: In the workplace and society, affinity bias can perpetuate exclusion of those who are perceived as “other,” hindering diversity and equitable opportunity.
Examples: A manager who prefers to hire candidates who share their alma mater or cultural background, ignoring equally qualified people from different backgrounds.
Related Terms: In-group/Out-group Bias, Unconscious Bias, Similarity Bias, Discrimination Common Misconceptions: Affinity bias is sometimes mistaken for deliberate prejudice; however, it frequently operates unconsciously and can affect anyone’s interactions and decisions.

Definition: Acts of equity are deliberate actions taken to address individual needs, remove barriers, and create fair access to opportunities, recognising that not everyone begins from the same starting point.
Relevance: Such acts are fundamental in organisational culture, enabling all colleagues — regardless of background — to thrive and achieve common goals.
Examples: Providing additional mentorship or resources for employees from underrepresented groups; modifying work arrangements for disabled staff.
Related Terms: Equity, Reasonable Adjustments, Positive Action, Equal Opportunity Common Misconceptions: Acts of equity are often misrepresented as ‘preferential treatment’ or ‘lowering standards’, when they are actually mechanisms for ensuring fair opportunity and removing historic disadvantage.

Definition: The Fence and Rocks Analogy visually represents equity: the “fence” signifies societal or organisational barriers (such as racism, sexism, or other ‘isms’), while the “rocks” represent the additional support required to provide equal access for those blocked by the fence.
Relevance: This model illustrates why identical treatment does not equate to equal opportunity, highlighting the need for context-driven, tailored interventions.
Examples: Some employees may need more flexible working arrangements (‘extra rocks’) to overcome structural barriers (‘the fence’) to advancement in their careers.
Related Terms: Equity vs Equality, Systemic Barriers, Social Justice, Inclusion Common Misconceptions: Many believe that offering different supports to different people is unfair, not recognising that invisible ‘fences’ prevent equal participation unless they are actively addressed.

Definition: Keyboard courage refers to the impulsive, sometimes unfiltered or unconsidered statements made by individuals online or over digital media platforms, emboldened by perceived anonymity or distance.
Relevance: Keyboard courage influences modern social interaction, shaping debates around inclusion, identity, and equity — sometimes leading to harmful or divisive rhetoric.
Examples: Posting a provocative comment or criticism about someone’s identity on social media, which one would not express in person.
Related Terms: Online Disinhibition, Social Media Behaviour, Digital Communication, Cyberbullying Common Misconceptions: It is believed keyboard courage enables “authenticity,” yet often it results in thoughtless, damaging exchanges that undermine constructive dialogue.

Definition: The pendulum effect describes how societal attitudes, especially towards diversity, equity, and inclusion, tend to swing between progressive and conservative extremes over time in response to activism, economic shifts, or political events.
Relevance: Understanding the pendulum effect helps contextualise both advances and setbacks in DEI efforts; recognising that backlash or regression is often cyclical rather than permanent.
Examples: A wave of social activism followed by increased conservatism in government policy, or vice versa; alternation in workplace priorities from inclusive to more traditional practices after external changes.
Related Terms: Backlash, Social Cycles, Progressive vs Conservative, Political Climate Common Misconceptions: Some believe that a societal swing towards conservatism signals the end of meaningful progress, not appreciating that cyclical change is an inherent aspect of history.

What is Affinity Bias?
Affinity bias refers to the natural preference for familiar or similar others, which can hinder diversity and inclusion by subtly discouraging engagement with those perceived as different.
What are Acts of Equity?
Acts of equity are targeted interventions within organisations and society designed to remove barriers and ensure fair access to opportunities, tailored to individual need rather than treating everyone identically.
What is the Fence and Rocks Analogy?
This analogy is a visual metaphor expressing how barriers to opportunity (the fence) necessitate extra support (rocks) for some people to achieve equal outcomes, thereby teaching the difference between equity and equality.
What is Keyboard Courage?
Keyboard courage describes the phenomenon where individuals express bold or contentious opinions online that they wouldn’t voice face-to-face, impacting social discourse and sometimes fuelling divisiveness.
What is the Pendulum Effect in Social Change?
The pendulum effect characterises society’s tendency to oscillate between progressive and conservative attitudes, especially concerning diversity and equity, and serves as a reminder that backlash is often temporary and cyclical.