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Aaron talks with Kellie Macpherson, Chief Operating Officer of Compliance and Security at Radian Generation, who leads compliance and security work for hundreds of renewable power plants across the country.
If you want to know what storytelling, reliability, cybersecurity, and human leadership have in common when it comes to the future of clean energy, this is the episode for you.
Listen to this episode here, or on:
Connect with Kellie on LinkedIn here.
Why Kellie started posting on LinkedIn every day after someone told her she should not be speaking publicly
Some of the amazing things that have happened to Kellie from building her personal brand
Why smart companies are putting public faces on their brands in 2026
“Reliability, doing compliance well, cybersecurity well, takes away all of those negative arguments about renewables… and now we actually have the ability to go forward and change the grid and solve some really serious problems that we have.”
— Kellie Macpherson
Aaron Nichols: Kelly, something I’m really interested in with you is that you seem to have leaned into being more of a public figure. And I’m interested in that because in the energy industry, this is very, very uncommon. So I’d be interested to hear why you’ve done that and why you post on LinkedIn and why you’ve leaned into that.
Kellie Macpherson: Thanks.
Kellie Macpherson: Oh gosh, well, there’s like kind of the funny story behind it. And then there’s like the probably like real intellectual parts of it. So I think it’s probably time I can like tell the story publicly now. I was quiet about it for a while, but I think it tells you a lot. You know, I had someone, an executive a few years ago after RE+, I did a TV interview at RE Plus, and afterwards, you know, this person said, you know, why are you doing this? You know, why are you speaking about this? Like, you know, there’s other people that would be better at this than you. And I was kind of offended because I felt like I killed the interview and like did a really good job, you know, and like represented the company well and, you know, like did all things. And so I was just frustrated.
Kellie Macpherson: So I left RE Plus. I think I was thinking about timeline. I think it was September of 2023. I left RE Plus and I was like, you know what, and I had been watching several folks on LinkedIn, like I love social media, like back in the day, like before I was in the energy business, I did a lot of marketing. And so I just always, you know, appreciated that. I used to do some marketing for a snowboard company. I got a Tweetley award back in the day in the snowboarding category as an influencer, like long time ago, right? But I left RE Plus and I was like, you know what? Like I’m gonna post every single day on LinkedIn between now and the end of the year. So that was like September, it was probably like September 13th or 14th, right? Through the end of the year. I was like, I’m just gonna post it, I’m gonna see what happens. And I have something to say.
Kellie Macpherson: My voice is valuable, my stories are cool. You know, like I like connecting with people. And so I just started posting and I started out with like 580 connections on LinkedIn and just started posting. I think today, I think last week we hit 16,000 connections or followers or whatever we call them on LinkedIn. And I started a LinkedIn wins folder on my iPhone, like on my album, like on my camera.
Kellie Macpherson: And people would send me messages during that like 90 day period and say like, thank you, like that was really helpful. And like, you really inspired me and I’m having trouble with that too. Or, thank you for explaining NERC really easy for me. Like I didn’t understand that or whatever. And by the end of it, like I had over 40 messages from people saying like, thank you for speaking up and all that. And so I just continued on with that, but it’s really interesting. So I kind of did it out of like someone giving me a hard time, but also at the end of the day, like I just think it’s really important.
Kellie Macpherson: I think, you know, I struggle to find mentors, right? Like it’s hard to find mentorship. It’s hard to find people to influence your life, especially as a woman in the energy business, industry, as a mom, as an executive, right? All of that is really hard. Like it’s never been easy. I’ve never really had like a true mentor. I’ve just had different things that I listen to, a book that speaks to me or a podcast that I listen to or people I follow and things like that. And so I just felt like this is an opportunity to create community with people.
Kellie Macpherson: Oh my gosh, I have found people jobs. I’ve connected people jobs. There have been people that have had folks that they’ve lost their parents and they’re going through grief and you get to message them on LinkedIn and create this community and they come alongside them during huge life things. It’s just been a really cool opportunity to create this community because we’re all humans outside of the day-to-day work that we do. Yeah, lots of reasons, but that’s the Genesis story. Yeah, it is really similar, right?
Aaron Nichols: That, it’s, there’s some interesting, yeah, there’s some very interesting parallels there to my own journey. Yeah, specifically the like, I mean, obviously I’m not marginalized and I, you know, I don’t belong to a marginalized group, but I was told very early on that I shouldn’t be posting and that I didn’t know enough and that I was too new and that like my, it didn’t matter.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: And there was something about that that really fueled me through the beginning part, because the beginning part’s really hard. In the beginning, very few people care, especially the very, very beginning when you’re not consistent. And this journey that I’ve heard a lot of people go on who have platforms is that there’s a fuel they burn in the beginning that gets them through the consistency part of it, and then the fuel changes. And it sounds like that happened to you.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was really cool. Like, at the beginning, you’re like doubting. You’re like, does anyone care? And I just, I would post and then I would not look, right? Like, I’d just be like, it doesn’t matter. Like, and that was part of the, like, you know, I’m posting every day till January and it doesn’t matter. Even if someone says something bad or negative or people think this is dumb, like, I just don’t care. Like, I’m going to do this. And that fueled me. But, and then it does change.
Aaron Nichols: Right.
Kellie Macpherson: And I think part of it too is I was waiting for someone to give me permission where you were like, oh, I need my company to tell me it’s okay. I had this really cool marketing manager during that season who said, you don’t need permission. You have a great role at this company. You have a story to tell. If you need permission, I’m giving you permission. Go post. But it was that.
Aaron Nichols: No look?
Aaron Nichols: Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: And let’s talk more about that because I was just down at the Charge conference in San Antonio and I was lucky enough to, I got to give a presentation about the value of LinkedIn thought leadership. And there were so many people who hadn’t even considered like not doing a company page instead using their executives or thought leaders in their company to tell the story. And there’s so many companies who are very, very hesitant to do that. So you’ve obviously, you do this at a high level, you’re an executive in your company, would you talk a little bit about like, Radiant’s perspective, things you’ve had to overcome within your company to make that okay, et cetera?
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, you know, it’s really interesting. I’m really fortunate to have such a cool partner and our CEO Joe Kastner. He’s always been really supportive. But they, you know, from the beginning, like everyone was like, this is good. And it was interesting because what I started to see from the LinkedIn stuff was I started to see opportunities to speak at conferences and getting more exposure there. And so that kind of translates into like normal. Does that mean like—
Aaron Nichols: Okay.
Kellie Macpherson: So gives us, people are used to like, yeah, we want you to speak at a conference. That’s a good thing. And then it’s like, well, I got the invitation because they saw my LinkedIn posts. And then they’re like, that’s cool. So your LinkedIn posts are cool because they’re bringing something that we know. Does that make sense? Not in a bad way, just like, that was how it started translating. And so really quickly, I really started to get, I have in my own MBOs, I have thought leadership and I have requirements of, you know, like speaking and things like that. And they like, adopted it right away. And it’s really interesting because it brings so much credibility.
Aaron Nichols: Yes, absolutely.
Kellie Macpherson: And, you know, I get leads, you know, we’re a service business. We offer services, like we are technically selling, right? And so I do, like, I get leads, you know, weekly people jumping into my DMs, like, Hey, like, I have a question about that. You know, I don’t know, I need help, blah, blah, blah. And so as soon as that kind of started picking up too, they were really excited about that. But what’s really interesting, and I think this is like the key, and this is where I really got the like, like support or, you know, like acknowledgement was our sales folks would go into the room and employees of the people we’re talking to, prospects would say like, yeah, I follow Kellie on LinkedIn. Like I see your stuff all the time and they create, creates this like familiarity already. And like this affection or does it, you know, maybe that’s a bad word, but, but you know what I’m saying? Like this like comfort.
Aaron Nichols: Right.
Kellie Macpherson: Like, well, we know you, like, you know what I mean? And, and we understand you. And so it just like it makes the sales process easier. And so once they started seeing that, then they were like, please don’t stop. You know, so yeah.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. That’s yeah, I had a very similar experience in San Antonio where I showed up and I believe the term now is a parasocial relationship where like you, someone knows you because of your content, but they haven’t met you in person. And I showed up in Texas and there was all these people who were excited to hear my talk that I had yet to meet in person. And so you’ve done some of the social selling yourself beforehand, which obviously is a huge asset.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: And I think as you were saying, like, I joke about this all the time, but people don’t like new things. You know, like we have, we have brains that are designed to help us survive and we’re walking around like, is it going to eat me? Is it going to like trample me? Is it going to jump out of the bushes and grab me? And so like if you’re starting a journey like this and you do have to prove the value to your company. I mean, Kellie’s right. You have to connect it to the things that are coming from it as fast as you can and then, you know, stay quiet when it’s not quite there yet.
Kellie Macpherson: No.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes, totally.
Kellie Macpherson: It’s really funny. My daughter has a really big rodeo. Her social profiles are really big and she has sponsorships and things like that. She actually made friends with this really, one of her really good friends. We joke, my husband and I say that she has a modern day pen pal.
Kellie Macpherson: They’ve been friends for probably six or eight months now and they talk on the phone and things like that. They met for the first time in Vegas last weekend at the Vegas rodeo. But it’s like, we know her, she’s part of our family life, we talk, you know, all these things. But it’s really interesting the way that social media has changed our relationships, you know? And I don’t know, I think it’s cool too, for some of us, for me it’s a great creative outlet, right? My job, I do compliance and security.
Aaron Nichols: You—
Kellie Macpherson: Those are not glamorous, those are not artsy, like nothing, but it’s a cool, it’s kind of like a cool like creative outlet for me. Like I really enjoy producing content. My family is like just always annoyed at me for taking pictures all the time, but—
Aaron Nichols: Hahaha.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, you know, it’s really fun. My husband actually sent me a picture from a solar site this morning and I was super stoked. I was like, thank you. You’re contributing to my content library. So yeah.
Aaron Nichols: That’s awesome. Well, let’s, so now that we’ve thoroughly just gone back and forth in our own little echo chamber about why you should create LinkedIn content. Will you introduce yourself and talk a bit more about your role at Radiant Generation?
Kellie Macpherson: Yes.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, yeah. Well, I joined Radian back in 2019 to build out our compliance and security business. So up until then, Radian was an asset management focused and software focused business. So the idea was you had all these, you know, at the time back in the when Radian was formed in 2012 was mostly solar, right? A little bit of wind. But the idea was that we needed to fulfill on the promise of renewables. It’d be great that you built all these facilities, right? Like you get all these things operational, you figure out where to put them, you build them, and then you make all these promises. And you’re like, oh yeah, like we’re going to make these PPA rates and we’re going to perform a certain way and all that. But then there was like, there was no plan in the industry for like how to handle the assets, right? Like what to do with them after to fulfill on the promises that you made, right?
Kellie Macpherson: And so I joined Radian in 2019 to build out our compliance and security business, because what we realized is that really for renewables to be successful, they need to be reliable and we have to show reliability and how they can solve all the problems on the grid, right? And we knew where the grid was going and how the grid was being shaped that renewables were going to be such a big part of it. And so for me, the ultimate trump card, you know, when we talk about renewables and compliance, reliability is NERC compliance. And so that’s the type of compliance that we do. It’s the federal laws that are required for all of these power plants because they’re power plants, right, that they had to follow for reliability.
Kellie Macpherson: And so I joined the team and yeah, so we have over 150 people now just in our compliance and security business. We have security operation, three security operation centers and managing day-to-day compliance and security for over 300 power plants across the US. So wind, hydro, a little bit of hydro, all renewable, mostly renewable assets. So yeah.
Aaron Nichols: And I have seen you talk about North American Reliability Corporation or NERC, the acronym lovers. I’ve seen you talk about that in your content and I’m not on the utility scale side of the solar business. So would love for you to explain that to me like I’m five, because I target this podcast at the public, not at the industry.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah. It’s yeah. Acronym soup. Yes, constantly. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Totally. Okay. So, if you think about reliability and you think about things that have happened. So the way that this really all came about, it’s really interesting. Back in August of 2003, it’d be interesting to know who listens to this, who remembers this. When I’m in a room with people, I always ask and people are like, oh, I remember that. People are very attached to this event.
Kellie Macpherson: In August 2003, there was a massive blackout for three days across the Eastern seaboard. And so there was, think about New York City, August, 115, 118 degrees. That is not normal, right? Like that’s not a normal thing. So I also like, there was a meeting of the G8, you know, think about the United Nations based in New York City, right? And there were fatalities that came out of this, you know, think about that, like exposure, think about older folks, hospitals that have backup systems but only have a day’s worth, right? Not three days. Three days is a really long time for a blackout.
Kellie Macpherson: So because of that event, Congress said, hey, you guys gotta do something, industry. You guys have gotta fix this. How do you fix this? Gotta be reliable. And so they actually passed Section 205 of the Federal Power Act, which made it legal to actually set up reliability standards, aka laws that power companies had to follow. Previous to that, NERC was actually just a group of, I always joke, I think you’re fun, I think this podcast is fun, so I think I can make the joke on this podcast. We always joke that NERC was a group of DUGs. Do you know what DUGs are?
Aaron Nichols: No.
Kellie Macpherson: Okay, dumb old utility guys.
Aaron Nichols: Hahaha.
Kellie Macpherson: But it’s like a joke. Like my dad is totally a Doug and like he makes the joke about himself. You know, like it’s like these guys that like, you really care about the grid and like we’ll go and sit in a room and drink black coffee, Folger’s black coffee for 12 hours and talk about how to operate the grid reliably. Right? Like that’s what NERC was before Congress passed the Federal Power Act. And so, you know, Congress was like, Hey, NERC, like, hey, DUGs, you guys need to figure this out, get your stuff together and come up with a plan.
Kellie Macpherson: And so that was really how NERC was actually formed. And then they actually became a corporation and they’ve grown up over the last 20 years and developed into this organization. And there’s regional entities, et cetera. It’s gotten really big now, but that’s really the origin story is this group of folks that cared about reliability and then a really serious blackout and Congress saying, hey, you need to figure out how to be reliable, right? And so NERC was formed and now there’s all these laws that we follow and then they audit you and they hold you accountable to following those laws. And so we talk about, there’s civil penalties and fines and things like that if you’re not following the laws. So that’s the origin of NERC.
Kellie Macpherson: So, you know, think about this. If you’re driving down the road and you’re taking your kids to school or you’re going to get a cup of coffee and you see those transmission lines on the side of the road, right? And you’re like, have you ever done this? So you’re driving down the road, you see a transmission line and there’s a tree on top of the transmission line. Have you seen that before? And you’re like, there’s a tree on the transmission line. Like this could not be a good thing, right? Like I feel like this is a concern or maybe this is just me because like I think about this all the time, but you see that, you see that line. Guess what? That’s like, maybe technically probably a NERC violation because there’s actually a NERC standard on vegetation management that transmission owners and operators have to follow, but they actually have to cut the tree. You know, they have to manage the vegetation and cut the trees and like, it’s not cool. They’re not supposed to just have a tree hanging out on a transmission line. Right. And so, you know, it’s things like that. Like there are things that are actually impacting, like really impacting your day to day.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, I just read the book California Burning. I don’t know if you’ve read that one.
Kellie Macpherson: Oh yes, mm-hmm.
Aaron Nichols: That fire in Northern California was started by something falling onto a tree.
Kellie Macpherson: Yep, it was. Yeah, it was. And there’s a serious investigation and audit going on still around that. And there’s going to be NERC penalties and fines because of that. And that’s why it’s so important. And that’s where NERC really cares about reliability and how you keep the grid reliable. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: And by the way, the owner of our company is named Doug. I don’t know. I don’t know if he will listen to this, but we’ll see. Yeah, I remember when I read that book, yeah. When I read that book by Gretchen Bakke, which I’m sure you’re familiar with. She had this section where she talked about like for years and years, utility profit was guaranteed.
Kellie Macpherson: Sorry Doug, I didn’t mean you personally.
Kellie Macpherson: Now we’ll know. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: And so utilities generally weren’t recruiting top talent or like very innovative or creative talent. They kind of just went and recruited rubber stampers from the bottom of classes at colleges all around the country. And then there was just, they just kind of went around and the pitch was, hey, like, do you want to just do what you’re told for 40 years and then retire? And there’s a certain kind of person who was just like, yeah, of course. And then all of a sudden in the last, yeah, in the last like decade or two, we’ve been like, you guys have to innovate now. And they’re like, nah, they told me that if I just stamped things for 40 years, that I’d get paid. I’m not ready for this.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: That’s easy.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: Well, you were also recently elected to the board of the Solar Energy Industries Association. I don’t actually know if you were elected. I don’t know how the process works. I don’t know much about boards.
Kellie Macpherson: It would work. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, I was elected. Yeah, I’m pretty lucky. So thank you to everyone who voted for me. I’m yeah, kind of cool. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: I doubt you were lucky. You are known and you are charming. So I think those were probably two big qualifications. But I mean, so you were elected to the board of the Solar Energy Industries Association, SEIA again, all you acronym lovers out there. What are you planning to tackle in your tenure there? What do you want your mission to be?
Kellie Macpherson: I don’t—
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: I’m really excited. It’s kind of really cool to actually get to be on the board because so far a lot, historically, the board has been really focused on developers and construction companies, things like that, or big IPPs, right? And so I’m really excited to talk about reliability and cybersecurity and bring that at another level.
Kellie Macpherson: I think the thing that’s really interesting about where we’re at in the industry right now is that we need renewables because we have an electron crisis on the grid, right? Like we don’t have enough electrons to keep up with the AI race, keep, you know, to keep up with data centers, to keep up with what is going on. So we are going to have, we are so close, if not there with, we’ll see what happens this summer. It’s going to be really telling, right? When we started hitting in these hot, hot summers coming, but we’re in an electron crisis. We don’t have enough electrons on the grid. We also have an affordability crisis. Electricity is becoming not affordable for folks. Those are two really big problems.
Kellie Macpherson: Well, guess what solves those problems? Renewables. Renewables solve those problems, right? We can’t build a nuclear power plant fast enough, minimum five years. Can’t build a coal plant fast enough. You can’t build a natural gas plant fast enough. All the generation that we can build, outside of renewables is four or five years best case scenario permitting is super easy. Renewables, you can get electrons on the grid in 12 to 18 months, no problem, really fast. So we’re talking about that and then we talk about affordability. Renewables is the only way to keep electricity affordable.
Kellie Macpherson: Well, here’s the thing, people are scared. For the last five years, people are scared of renewable, 10 years even really, that proliferation of renewables, they’re scared about that because they think that renewables aren’t reliable. They’re like, you’re going to break the grid. You’re going to mess everything up. So this is where I’m really passionate. This is what I think is so cool about what I do every day with compliance and NERC is that it’s the ultimate trump card. When you follow the NERC standards, you have to be just as compliant as the coal plant down the street.
Kellie Macpherson: It actually, reliability, doing compliance well, cybersecurity well, takes away all of those negative arguments about renewables and it fixes it. And now we actually have the ability to go forward and change the grid and solve some really serious problems that we have. And so I’m really excited about being at SEIA and actually having a true voice for reliability and cybersecurity sitting at the table.
Kellie Macpherson: And my most purest interest is that reliability. And so being able to have exposure to some of these folks that are doing some really big things in our industry and being able to set the table with them and talk about reliability is really freaking cool.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. And you’re talking about the very, very big solar plants as well, which is something I don’t have a lot of experience. For the last couple of weeks, we’ve been doing news updates on the journey to get balcony solar legalized, which has been happening in a couple of different states. And that is something, probably the most immediate energy affordability solution. And it’s the first time the public has been really interested in solar in a long time. There’s, I mean, the episodes we’ve done on it have three to five times the traffic of anything else we’ve ever done.
Kellie Macpherson: I know.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Who we are.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, right.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, it’s so interesting, but it’s a real solution, right? Like it actually fixes problems. You know, 10 years ago when you were like, well, what’s the benefit of a solar facility? It’ll create 5,000 jobs while we’re in construction, while we’re building it for 18 months. And then it turns into actually like three field techs on site. And maybe there’s some environmental impacts that we don’t love, right? Like it was really hard 10 years ago to tell, I think, in my opinion, a good story about what solar does. The list is infinite right now. It solves so many problems for us.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, and in so many ways the industry is still stuck in that mindset and we love to say things like, you know, it’s going to create X number of jobs or we’re going to lose X number of jobs as the legislation passes and we’re not as good at humanizing it. I think energy moves slowly in terms of media or public interest.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I think that’s where you have to remember the human stories, right? Like, you know, for some of us that are from the West Coast, you know, we remember the brownouts of the energy crisis in California in 2001. You know, I was an operator at the California ISO during the energy crisis. You know, I was, you know, sitting at midnight, 18 years old, interning at the generation desk, looking at, you know, the hour ahead generation and realizing we didn’t have enough generation for the next hour.
Kellie Macpherson: And all of our pumped hydro was turned on and there was no more electrons to grab, right? And so you ended up making this call and you say, okay, what are the two largest loads that we have in the next oncoming hour? And it was like, it’s two hospitals. So you pick up the phone and you’re calling the hospitals and you’re saying, hey, you I need to trip you offline. You know, have you checked your backup generators? Like, are you ready to go? And one of those hospitals was like, yes, absolutely.
Aaron Nichols: Wow.
Kellie Macpherson: You know, we just tested our backup system two weeks ago. Like we’re good. You call the next hospital like we can, but we’re in the middle of a heart transplant. You know, if you could not trip us off for three more hours, that would be great. And you’re like, okay, like I’m going to not trip that hospital off and trip the other one off. And like, these are the stories that are so important. Like this is why reliability matters. You know, like this is why we have to get electrons to the grid because it actually like it truly every single day affects people’s lives. And it’s like people don’t think about that, you know? Like it really matters. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: That is so interesting. That story you just told was so gripping. And why do you think the industry is so bad at this as a whole? Me too.
Kellie Macpherson: I don’t know, but this is why I post on LinkedIn. Do you know what I mean? This is why like, I have to be a storyteller because these stories matter. And once you hear the stories, then you’re like, oh, it changes your whole perspective, you know? Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: Me too. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: In the talk I gave in San Antonio, I had a diagram of like a meat grinder of a typical corporate creative department where it’s like, you know, it, someone has a good idea and then goes to legal and then it goes to review and then it goes to the executives. And then like, it comes out the other side and it’s like, we create innovative synergistic solutions that materials and advanced technology. And you’re like—
Kellie Macpherson: Huh. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: What are you talking about? What is interesting about the thing? Not that. I think you muted yourself.
Kellie Macpherson: I did, the dog was barking so I was trying to not ruin your recording. Sorry about that.
Aaron Nichols: Okay.
Aaron Nichols: Okay, cool. But yeah, and like I am so fascinated by how many companies in the space just seem to take the least interesting thing about what they do and put that in the public eye and ignore all of the lives they’ve changed.
Kellie Macpherson: Right. I mean, it really matters. Like it’s really affecting that day to day, you know, and it makes, really does make a big difference. I mean, we have here outside of Reno, we have a solar facility that is powering the Apple data center. You tell me you don’t care about that. You know, can we pause for just a second? I’m so sorry.
Aaron Nichols: Right.
Aaron Nichols: It was surprise.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, of course.
Kellie Macpherson: I’m so sorry about that. Can we clean on the edit? I’m so sorry. I didn’t realize the dog got out. Sorry about that. Someone did not lock the gate. Okay, let’s go back.
Aaron Nichols: All good. I can edit anything.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, no, of course. Yeah, yeah, no problem. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: OK.
Kellie Macpherson: So the lives, yeah.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, so the joke I used in my presentation, my talk in San Antonio, I was just like, I understand the desire to go, well, if we don’t say anything, no one can actually sue us. I understand that. But people are crying out for clear messaging and clear leadership right now.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yes. Yes.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah. I think like, we’ve taken like safety so far, right? Like so far where you’re just like afraid to do anything and you’re like, well, if you’re so afraid to do anything, then why do anything at all? Like if you’re not going to stand for anything, like what’s the point? You know, and I think the other thing like our culture, like the flip side of it is also like, and I noticed this even just like in human relationships too, like take this, you I think this is true like in the boardroom and one-on-one managers to peers. It’s true at my dinner table, right? Is we are not good at apologizing and we’re not good at mending relationships, right? It’s so easy. You’re like hands down in your phone all the time, social media, like we’ve taken the human element out of things and we’ve gotten really bad at being like, shoot, I’m sorry. Like I didn’t say that as well as I should have, right?
Aaron Nichols: Right.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: And that just like, we’re not good as a society at doing that anymore. You know, I noticed that as a parent even, you know, where it’s like, like I need to be liberal with the use of my apologies because I don’t have it all figured out, right? But that’s the thing, like we’ve gotten so safe in corporate messaging and the way we’re interacting with the world that like, then, and I think part of that is because then we’re like, what do we do if we mess up? And I don’t want to deal with, you know, confrontation.
Aaron Nichols: You—
Kellie Macpherson: So.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah. I—
Kellie Macpherson: Sorry, I threw you for a loop with that one.
Aaron Nichols: Well, you broke up a bunch. I’m not sure why, just then.
Kellie Macpherson: That’s not good. Oh no.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah, but it’s usually okay. Riverside records really well, even if the— So your recording will be fine when I look at the recording.
Kellie Macpherson: Okay, it’s all good on my end, so... Shoot. I’m sorry, I’m causing you a ton of edits.
Aaron Nichols: Okay. But yeah, it’s all good. But that another, yeah, I mean, Kellie, I think like one thing I’ve noticed too, I haven’t gone to many conferences, but the few that I’ve gone to, seems like there’s, there’s an uneasiness at the beginning. And then as soon as someone like displays humanity, everyone’s like, thank God. We don’t have to, we don’t have to be this core.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah. Yep.
Aaron Nichols: The one I was at in San Antonio, I walked in and this woman made, she just like made this kind of graphic inappropriate joke and we were all like, my God, a person. Thank God.
Kellie Macpherson: Oh no.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, it’s but but it’s true. Yeah, but it’s true. And I think that’s where you get the authenticity, you know, like for us, we’re services business, like, don’t you want to have a partnership and work with somebody who’s like an authentic human being who can be like, recognize like, like, you’re having a really bad day, like, let me adjust for you, you know, like, let me meet you where you’re at. And I don’t know, I just and also, like, we just—
Aaron Nichols: Like someone we can talk to.
Aaron Nichols: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: I don’t know, it’s interesting for sure. Like we’ve lost a bit of humanity, I think. And I think that’s where I hope the tides change and I hope that, you know, the work that you and I both do out in the industry like makes a difference. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: Well, Kellie, I end every episode with the same question. And it has to do with last year I spoke at my grandma’s 80th birthday party.
Aaron Nichols: And as I was speaking and as I was reflecting on it for writing a LinkedIn post afterwards, I realized that 80 years means my grandma was born into a world where what we call renewable energy did not exist. So like back then we didn’t have solar PV. Like we knew about the photovoltaic effect, but we didn’t invent solar cells until 1954. And then they were this fringe technology for a long time that was used on spacecraft. And then like everything that’s happened with the whole development of solar panels to now, to them becoming the cheapest power source in the world, all of that happened within my grandma’s lifetime. So to take us out here, if you’re just gonna moonshot, which is what I ask everyone to do who comes on, what do you think energy looks like 80 years from now?
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kellie Macpherson: Yeah, I mean, it has to be clean and it’s going to be innovative, but I think it’s going to be something we can’t even really imagine now because I think it’s going to be the combination. I think it’s going to be this hybrid approach of, you know, what’s the best use of a small part of land, right? And that’s going to and what’s going to give you 24/7, you know, capabilities to produce generation, which means it’s probably not one type of generation. It’s going to be clean and it’s going to be affordable and it’s going to be easy to deploy and quick to deploy. And I think there’s some combination there. And I honestly, I can’t imagine what that looks like, but it’s going to be really cool, I’m sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: I think so too.
Aaron Nichols: Well, Kellie, where do you like to be found online or otherwise if you do in fact want to be found?
Kellie Macpherson: Yes.
Kellie Macpherson: I love that question you always ask. It’s so awesome. I would love to be found. I’m on LinkedIn. That’s really the best way. And I really truly, I’m in my DMs all the time. If you shoot me a DM over there on LinkedIn, I will really actually get it and respond to you. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah.
Aaron Nichols: Well, thank you for coming on today, Kellie, and thank you for sharing your wisdom.
Kellie Macpherson: Absolutely. Thank you for having me and thank you for all your support. I really appreciate it. You’re doing some amazing work and I love following everything on there that you share. So thank you.
Aaron Nichols: Thank you.
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