A production of Christian Legal Society — focusing on the interaction between law, religion, and public policy, with an emphasis on building-up Christian students and attorneys to intelligently engage in public life and better love their neighbors.
Subscribe:.rss.atom.json.md.m3u.pls
Live Last read · last published · next check
Saves to your Listen queue, to pick up on another day or another device.
The legal profession tends to breed a type of disposition more akin to something in Homer than The Wonder Years . A rooted posture towards adversity rather than compromise or even common ground. Much of this is taught in law school, even if indirectly, with a ruthless employment competition cycle the second 1Ls start their fall semester and that infamous curve that pins students against one…
Today, I discuss a book that goes to the heart of why religious freedom matters and how protecting its exercise confounds the forces of disintegration and violence. My guest is Allen D. Hertzke, whose book Why Religious Freedom Matters is an indispensable resource for not only showing the true value of religion, but also why it remains so important that people of all stripes band together to…
In the last few years, Artificial Intelligence (AI) has become a household name, slowly creeping into the corners of every technological device we've all grown to depend on. But what happens if the underlying training data and the people training the models perpetuate the common biases that we all from time to time commit against our neighbors—whether intentionally or not. That is the focus of our…
The John Witte, Jr. Lecture Series on Christianity & Law is back! A new venture from Christian Legal Society aimed at advancing the conversation surrounding the integration of Christianity & law. In our third lecture inspired by the Düsseldorf School of painting, we discuss law, family, and religion in late antiquity. Our keynote is Dr. Maria Doerfler , an Associate Professor of Late Antiquity at…
Many who discuss political theology run to the likes of Augustine or Aquinas to explain the ways their minds express the world and treat its people. And while those thinkers are profound and helpful, the idea of political theology carries a lifeblood that invites Christians to think creatively about its seams and the ways it informs and binds our common connections. That is why I'm excited to…
One of the most difficult issues to solve is the careful balance of criminal reform with the punitive aims of state power. While most of us don't want to needless lock up our neighbors, we are also in favor of the systematic creation of spaces of safety for our families and friends. But with underlying aims of justice comes the sins of man's overreach in search of solutions. Alas, enters mass…
One of the things that we at Christian Legal Society constantly implore law students to do is to think about what sort of lawyer they want to be. Yes, we want them to be successful, but more than that, we want them to bear witness to the grace of God and to manifest His character across the legal profession. My conversation today provides a much needed resource for those looking to develop their…
Our first episode of the year takes us to Dayton, Ohio, where under the auspices of the Montgomery County Common Pleas Court sits the Kushinda Court ("the Court") under the vision and direction of the Honorable Gerald Parker. This Court is part of the wider strategy to create specialized dockets that allow for a therapeutic approach to law. My guest is Judge Parker, who talks to me about his…
One of the chief affections we as humans should pursue along with truth and virtue is the appreciation for beauty. As lawyers, we are uniquely predisposed to ignoring this element of human life for want of loveliness in our work and in the people we come across. My discussion today is an attempt to rethink the Christian attorney's relationship with beauty. My guest has written a seminal work (…
The question of natural law continues to come up in the context of Christian jurisprudence, and for good reason. It is a topic both fascinating and formative, touching on topics as vast as the origins of the American constitutional experiment , human vulnerability , and modern society . And so with the new book from Alex Deagon ( here ) on the interaction of Christian natural law and religious…
All year, we've witnessed in America a law enforcement presence dedicated to a single mission: mass deportation. While initially this mission was centered on the eradication of dangerous criminals, those now detained with no criminal history has outpaced those with convictions or pending criminal charges. The stories have been saddening and legally complex, leaving Christians with a tension…
In 2010, the Supreme Court issued a consequential opinion that stifled the freedom of association across countless campuses when it came to religious groups. In CLS v. Martinez, in a divided 5-4 opinion , the Court opened the way for universities to limit group association by refusing to grant them power to elect those leaders best suited to carry on that group's mission and purpose. In a…
One of the cliches of culture is that we are polarized. Perhaps because it has become so commonplace to speak of our divisions, our divisions have become normalized. In my conversation today, I speak with someone who is very much at the heart of the American political order and has a unique vantage point for elucidating the cosmic significance of our clashes. Jim DeMint is an American businessman,…
Today marks the 200th episode of the Cross & Gavel. As part of that celebration, I have brought back the original host to have an unscripted and (mostly) unedited conversation about all things ministry, movies, books, and more. Mike Schutt is now the Executive Director of Worldview Academy , the director of the CLS Law School Fellows Program, and the author of the seminal work for Christian law…
My guest today comes from outside the United States and has been studying the religious freedom landscape in Australia for quite some time. In his new book— Unshaken Allegiance: Living Wisely as Christians with Diminishing Religious Freedoms — he chronicles many of these challenges, offering a constructively approach to matters of difference and the various ways to express our Christian identity…
My guest this week is Whittney Barth, an associate teaching professor at Emory Law School and the Executive Director and Charlotte McDaniel Scholar at the Center for the Study of Law and Religion. Our conversation centers around her new piece arguing that religious actors act as friction creators in the discussion and development of AI tools, ethics, and regulation. Full paper:…
In this special film festival edition, I talk with Crystal L. Downing about the medium of film and how to approach the viewing experience. At the heart of our discussion is her new book, The Wages of Cinema: A Christian Aesthetic of Film in Conversation with Dorothy L. Sayers . Cross & Gavel is a production of CHRISTIAN LEGAL SOCIETY. The episode was produced by Josh Deng, with music from Vexento.
One of the major challenges in religious freedom law is figuring out to what extent a claim of accommodation is justified given the low barrier of entry for claims of sincerity. While American law tries to prevent a man from becoming what Justice Scalia in Smith called " a law unto himself ," something of the sort is happening when a person claims that his faith prevents him from following the…
In Part I , Ross Halperin and I laid a foundation for the work of ASJ in Honduras under the leadership of Kurt Ver Beek and others. In this episode, I am joined by Kurt himself to discuss his exchange of letters between Nicholas Wolterstorff in a wonderful book, Call for Justice: From Practice to Theory and Back , which looks at the meaning of justice and the work ASJ. Kurt is joined by Emily…
Today, we start a two-part journey into the heart of Honduran society. Our focus will be on one man, Kurt Ver Beek, and the organization he co-founded, Association for a More Just Society (ASJ) . Kurt is a professor of Sociology (Emeritus) at Calvin University and lead investigator for an agreement between Transparency International, the Honduran Government, and ASJ. For this first episode, we are…
My conversation today is on the necessity of adaptive leadership in the coming wave that is artificial intelligence. My guest is Kevin Frazier, the newly minted AI Innovation and Law Fellow at The University of Texas School of Law. His article ( here ) in Law & Liberty is called Building an AI-Savvy Workforce. His new podcast, Scaling Law ( here ), is excellent. Find his other work at Lawfare (…
On June 20, 2025, the Fifth Circuit returned its decision in the Louisiana Ten Commandments case ( here ), upholding the District Courts order blocking the law from going into effect. This was followed by a petition on June 26 for a rehearing en banc by the State ( here ). At the same time, Texas passed its on bill ( here ) requiring displays of the Ten Commandments in classrooms. On June 24, that…
This week, we have a special episode. One near and dear to my heart and my own intellectual history. It is a conversation with professor Marc O. DeGirolami on his piece published in the Oxford Journal of Law & Religion covering the life and death of law and religion. Read it here . In it, he takes us into the first wave of this movement and its advent forces with those like Harold Berman and John…
The Foundations Series is a new web content venture from CLS aimed at helping Christian law students transition from 3Ls to first-year associates. It features Christian practitioners skilled in the integration of faith and practice, offering guidance in conversation with students at the early stages of their legal development. My guests today are James A. Boatman & Stephen Schahrer , collectively…
With the release of U.S. News Rankings last month , renewed interest has surfaced regarding the parameters and impact of placement. Where law schools fall speaks to not only the quality of their percieved education, but also success regarding student employment and faculty publication. On this episode, I speak with Michael Conklin, a scholar who's been measuring bias within the Rankings system,…
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently wrote, "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how this environment tends to contribute to high rates of mental health disorders and substance abuse. In an effort to face this challenge, LSM has launched the…
For most of the second half of 20th century, the Supreme Court has wrestled with finding a balance between the Free Exercise of religion and the Establishment Clause, offering several tests to test the limits of permissible accommodation without the undue appearance of government endorsement. Among those tests has been a little-thing called the "play in the joints," famously introduced in Walz v.…
The Foundations Series is a new web content venture from CLS aimed at helping Christian law students transition from 3Ls to first-year associates. It features Christian practitioners skilled in the integration of faith and practice, offering guidance in conversation with students at the early stages of their legal development. My guests today are Joe Ruta and Stephen Lyon. Joe is a Partner of…
The recent publication of Melissa Moschella's Ethics, Politics, and Natural Law has renewed interest in the application of natural law to human flourishing. A topic that has undergone a resurgence among not only Catholics, but also Protestants with seminal publications from those like David VanDrunen , Micah Watson , and Andrew T. Walker . Seeing students engaging in this tradition has been…
A popular refrain from both the left and the right in American society is one concerning the importance of liberty for the flourishment of their respective communities. But what does true freedom look like and, perhaps more importantly, how does one come to attain it and then keep it in a world like our own. This week, I am joined by Brad Littlejohn to talk about his new book, Called to Freedom:…
The John Witte, Jr. Lecture Series on Christianity & Law is back! A new venture from Christian Legal Society aimed at advancing the conversation surrounding the integration of Christianity & law. In our second lecture inspired by the American 19th century painters, we go international and ask what contributions Christianity made to advancing human rights. Our keynote is Kristina Arriaga, who digs…
Today, a sharply divided Supreme Court reinstated a lower-court order for the Trump administration to release frozen foreign aid. In this episode, I talk with Matthew Soerens of World Relief about some of the recent executive orders and how marginalized voices can help restore the American church in its places of prominence. Matt began his World Relief journey in 2005 as an intern in Nicaragua.…
Today we delve into the world of Title VII by looking at the pending case in Carter v. Transp. Workers Union of Am. Local 556. The focus of our discussion will be on the paper from Blaine Hutchison in the Texas Review of Law & Politics, entitled Title VII's Religious Liberty Rules in Carter ( here ) . Blaine is joined by one of the premier experts in the field of employment law and also my old…
Many people hate the tax system. It is perhaps the one universal solvent that can bring people together. In this episode, I discuss the income tax system and whether it can actually produce a more equitable society. My guest is Andrew Hayashi, whose paper we discuss is entitled Christianity and the Liberal(ish) Income Tax and was printed in the Notre Dame Journal of Law, Ethics, & Public Policy.…
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently wrote , "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how this environment tends to contribute to high rates of mental health disorders and substance abuse. In an effort to face this challenge, LSM has launched the…
Many people use the language of "calling" without considering the scope and duration of that word and what it really means to align one's gifts with community need. In this episode, I get to explore some of these issues with Steven Zhou, a postdoc researcher on the meaning of calling and the author of a Christianity Today piece entitled Calling Is More Than Your Job . Steven and I delve deep into…
Happy New Years! To start off the year right, I wanted to go back to basics: faith through lawyering. My guest is Randy Lee, a veteran in the field, writing on the topic of the Christian lawyer for over three decades. His insights can be found within a body of work (see links here ), but the paper we mostly focused on ( here ) was a book review he did on Joseph G. Allegretti's The Lawyer's…
In the last few weeks, there has been two excellent podcasts that showcase the depths of what legal learning could provide. In the first, a conversation ( here ) about the history and framework for the federal constitution, taught largely from an incredible five volume work entitled The Founders' Constitution . The second comes from our friends at the Mattone Center for Law and Religion ( here ),…
In this special end of the semester episode, I get to talk to two amazing black Christian women about their experiences in law school. And not just in law school, but also the entire process surrounding getting in and getting out. The book at the heart of this discussion is from Jeanelle Angus entitled Unveiling Strength and Faith: The Diary of a Black Christian Female Law Student . As part of…
This week, we continue our conversation on mental health and the various reasons why law students don't get the help they need. My guest is Amy Levin—someone who not only understands the legal profession but has also spent much time studying mental health. Amy has written a new paper entitled The Kids Aren't Alright , in which she discusses the decline in law student mental health and encourages…
It is no secret that law students and attorneys exist in a stressful environment. As Amy Levin recently wrote , "[l]aw student mental health is at an all-time low." The American Bar Association (ABA) has conducted a study that shows how this environment tends to contribute to high rates of mental health disorders and substance abuse. In an effort to face this challenge, LSM has launched the…
This week, I talk to Lael Weinberger about the doctrine of church autonomy—what it is and, more importantly, where it came from. Lael has written an excellent paper on the origins of church autonomy ( here ), as well as put to practice his musings in a recent amicus brief he filed in the D.C. Circuit in the case of O'Connell v. United States Conference of Catholic Bishops ( here ). After we spent…
This week, we are joined once more by our friend and comparative constitutional law expert from the mean streets of Padua—Andrea Pin. We discuss his brand new book from Brill entitled, Religious Freedom without the Rule of Law: The Constitutional Odysseys of Afghanistan, Egypt, and Iraq and the Fate of the Middle East ( here ). Whereby last time we spoke about the development of religious freedom…
This week, we have a special guest from the University of Florida Levin College of Law—Christopher D. Hampson. Our topic is a good one: the cancellation of debt. To that end, Chris and I discussed his forthcoming article tentatively entitled Law and the Jubilee Tradition. Some of the things we spoke about was the jubilee tradition in the Old Testament text, the many ways that tradition connects…
This week, we have a special episode with a return guest of mine—Nicholas Aroney, who recently delivered the Sir John Graham Lecture in New Zealand. You can listen to that here or read it here . Nick and I talk about this lecture, entitled The Compass of Character, delving into questions relating to the definition of good character, the role that catastrophes play in bringing out an individual's…
In this episode, I talk about a new book that models the ten habits that any peacemaker should adopt. The author is Steven T. Collis and the book is Ten Habits of a Peacemake r. For those wondering how this book compares to the work of Ken Sande's The Peacemaker , the two are excellent companions. While Ken's is more theological ( LISTEN ), Steven's project looks at the process and psychological…
This week, I discuss a recent piece ( here ) in Touchstone Magazine with Adam J. MacLeod entitled "How Law Lost Its Way: An Abandoned Ruling Principle & How to Get It Back." In it, Adam discusses the role of practical reason in the development of law and the change that took place after the Enlightenment toward a positivistic conception of law rooted in power and force. We discuss his move to…
This week, we enter the world of labor law theory — more specifically, the question of faith as it relates to the rights of workers. In this episode, I am joined by law professor Alvin Velazquez to talk about a paper ( here ) he presented at the St. Louis University School of Law Symposium focused on the question of workplace justice. We talk about his transition from serving with a major American…
This week, we talk about an all too familiar topic for law students: contracts. In this episode, I am joined by law professor C. Scott Pryor to talk about his soon to be published paper in the Notre Dame Journal of Law, Ethics, and Public Policy: Person-Centered Pluralism About Contract Law ( download here ). Scott and I talk about the fundamentals of contract law, the moral obligation of promise,…
This week, we begin a new chapter in the life of the Cross & Gavel podcast, with a renewed effort to explore the interaction of Christianity and law. This new focus will be exclusive to the work being done by practitioners and academics in their field of knowledge, offering their small contributions to the great intellectual tradition that has made the " cathedral of the law " such a formative…
