In this episode of Based Camp, Simone and Malcolm Collins break down Heidi Blake’s exhaustive New Yorker investigation “Andrew Tate’s Empire of Abuse.”
They examine the documented pattern of rape, strangulation, underage exploitation, financial and psychological control, human trafficking, and the systematic teaching of “pimping” through the War Room. Key accounts include Lauren Southern’s experience in Romania, the early UK cam-house abuses, the recruitment and abuse of Romanian schoolgirls, the use of female enforcers, the coercion and reputation-destruction of women who tried to leave, and the real-world violence linked to Tate’s content.
The discussion also covers Tate’s conversion to Islam, the Taliban’s public support, the double standard with Jeffrey Epstein, the failure of parts of the online right to apply consistent standards, and why “maximum masculinity” as an identity is a reliable red flag for dangerous actors.
Sensitive content warning: detailed discussion of sexual violence, underage exploitation, trafficking, and child abuse.
For the full thing, read: Andrew Tate’s Empire of Abuse
How the defining figure of the manosphere built a fortune—and became a political force—by systematically exploiting women
By Heidi Blake, published June 8th
In this article, Blake “pieced together an account of Tate’s activities from thousands of private messages, internal documents, sealed prosecutorial files, and court records—as well as scores of interviews with the Tates, their associates, and more than a dozen alleged victims”
“I’ve done this with over 100 girls,” Tate said, about compelling women into sex work. “I almost sound evil. But I’m not.”
In case you’re not familiar with Lauren Southern: “She had become a darling of the manosphere at the age of nineteen with a video titled “Why I Am Not a Feminist,” in which she argued that men were the real victims of an unjust society. She followed up with a series of videos in which she trolled women who marched against sexual violence, ridiculing their views and holding up a sign saying “THERE IS NO RAPE CULTURE IN THE WEST.””
After getting introduced by Tommy Robinson, Andrew Tate got Lauren Southern to fly to Romania.
“She told me that she flew to Bucharest without knowing much about Tate; Robinson had simply said that a kickboxer in Eastern Europe wanted to finance her work. When they arrived, Tate was waiting in one of his supercars, and he insisted on taking her out for lunch alone. Over steak, he told her “everything that you would want to hear as a conservative right-wing woman,” talking about the importance of family and praising her work. “You’re saving Western civilization,” she remembers him saying.”
“After lunch, they headed to Tate’s compound. At a long table, Southern listened as the brothers laid out their proposal: they would fund a new right-wing media venture, with her and Robinson in charge, if she would use it to pump a cryptocurrency they were planning to launch. The idea, she recalls, was, “basically, we’re going to create a European-nationalist outlet to fleece all these idiots for money.””
Hmmmmmm….. That’s not what our community does
“That evening, the Tates took Southern to a club, where they ordered bottle service. After a couple of shots of vodka, she recalls, she suddenly felt “like my consciousness was collapsing.” Tate carried her to his car, and when she came to they were on the bed at her hotel.”
“Tate started kissing Southern and pulling off her clothes. She told me that she tried to push his hands away, but he wouldn’t stop. Then he hooked his arm around her neck and started to squeeze. She remembers thinking, “Oh, shit, this guy actually is going to rape me.” Southern was anti-abortion, and was terrified of getting pregnant. She began pleading with him: “I know what you’re gonna do here. Please just wear a condom. Please.””
“Southern remembers fading in and out of consciousness as Tate raped her unprotected and choked her. Afterward, he sat on the edge of the bed and said, “Don’t tell the press I raped you.” She remembers saying, “My whole brand is literally talking about how stupid bitches get themselves in situations like this. There’s nothing I can say without destroying my career. So congratulations.””
“In the car to the airport, Southern said, she discovered burst blood vessels around her eyes and marks on her neck. Back in Toronto, she was examined by a nurse who specialized in sexual assault. On an assessment form, the nurse recorded that Southern had been raped and strangled by a “well known male” at a hotel in Romania and had suffered an intimate injury. She noted that Southern seemed to be experiencing “personal struggles with her belief system” as a result.”
“Southern told me that she tried to apply her political convictions to her experience, telling herself that she was at fault for drinking with a man she didn’t know. A month later, she texted Tate. “It was really shitty what you did that night in Bucharest,” she wrote. “I’m not going to tell anyone obviously because I was an absolute moron, but I hope you don’t do that to anyone else.”
““What did I do?” Tate replied. “I expected tons better from you. This msg is some liberal #metoo bullshit.””
“You literally strangled me when I said I didn’t want to have sex,” Southern wrote. “You literally told me in the morning ‘don’t tell the press I raped you.’ ”
“You’re absolutely embarrassing yourself,” he wrote.
“Tate denied raping Southern, but he bragged to the War Room about spending the night with her, saying that he had invited her to Romania to discuss a business deal but “didn’t invest a f***ing penny.””
This started with two young women, Walker and Navvaro, in the UK he recruited after learning from one of his girlfriends how much he could make
“But Tate was already coming to resent paying Navarro and Walker a cut of their earnings. Hruskova let him keep “100% of the f***ng money,” he later said. But, he complained, “once you get bigger, you start hiring girls who don’t love you.” He decided on a strategy: “I have a financial incentive to f*** as many as I can.”
NOTE ABOUT HRUSKOVA: “He reported in private chats that her live streams had made him around two million dollars, but all she got was pocket money for coffee and manicures.”
Even before this, when he did give them money, he immediately took them to malls and told them to go on shopping sprees, which meant they lacked funds to get away
What it was like to be in the house:
“One morning, Navarro [who was stranded at the house because the Tates would not drive her home and she lacked money or a car to get out] woke up to Tate and Walker having sex next to her. She shushed them, and Walker got up and went into the bathroom. When she was gone, Navarro said, Tate put her in a choke hold and raped her for a second time. Though she clawed at his arms, he wouldn’t release his grip. “I was scared that he was going to kill me,” she told me. Then Walker emerged from the shower, and he rolled off her.
Later, Navarro said, she was working on camera when she heard strange noises and went to investigate. Through the open bedroom door, she saw Tate strangling Walker on the bed. Walker’s face was red and puffy, and her body was limp. Navarro said that she felt a strange paralysis. “I was, like, There’s nothing I can do about it,” she told me. She went back to work.”
“The following morning, Navarro and Walker were putting on makeup in the bathroom when they noticed clusters of red spots around their eyes. Walker searched online and saw that petechiae—burst blood vessels—can be a sign of acute pressure in the head from strangulation. The women began to panic. Hearing a commotion, the Tates came to the door. When they saw the marks, they laughed. “You’re such dumb bitches,” Navarro remembers them saying. “That’s from sleeping on the silk sheets.””
“Navarro said that Tate started attacking her at random moments. Multiple times, when she slept late, he whipped her with a belt. Time became a blur, and the world outside the apartment seemed to recede. But, one day, Navarro had a moment alone, and something snapped: she walked out the door and never went back.”
This was BEFORE he stopped women from escaping
“In one video, Tate lay on a bed and ordered Hruskova to show the camera her tattoo. “Why does it say ‘Tate’?” he asked.
“Because I’m his whore,” she replied.
“Why’s your ass got a bruise on it?”
“Because my daddy hits me.”
Tate picked up a belt and began whipping Hruskova as she lay in the fetal position, sobbing. “Bitch, look at the camera,” he told her, yanking her head back by the hair. “This is what happens when you don’t f***ing listen.””
When footage of this video was released online, Andrew Tate “said that Hruskova was an ex-girlfriend, and shared a photo of her holding a belt inscribed with the words “But I love when Andrew spanks me.””
SHE WAS 15 YEARS OLD IN THAT PHOTO
HE BEAT HER SO MUCH HE MADE A THEMED BELT FOR IT
There was a LOT of underage stuff. Consider the testimony of Irina Pavel (name changed):
“When Pavel was fifteen, she told investigators, she had accompanied a school friend to a party hosted by the Tates, which was full of young girls. Her friend paired off with Tristan, leaving her with Andrew, who was so drunk that he spat as he talked. He pulled her into a bedroom and raped her, she said. Afterward, some of Tate’s “female friends” persuaded the girls to stick around for several days, and Tate kept having sex with Pavel. “We had normal, oral, and anal sexual relations, but I mention that the anal sexual acts were traumatic for me because I was in pain,” she told investigators. “Even though I asked Andrew to stop, he continued.”
The girls eventually had to go back to school, but, Pavel said, the Tates sent a taxi every few weeks to bring them to the compound. Tate was “often aggressive,” beating her with a belt and choking her—but he also bought her Teddy bears. Finally, he discovered that she had been chatting with a boy online and became furious, throwing her phone into the pool and kicking her out.”
(This is on top of Tate playing women against each other)
“Tate had assigned Georgiana Naghel to “keep the farm animals on task,” and a former police officer named Luana Radu was brought in to work alongside her. The two were a ferocious team. They issued instructions through a WhatsApp group called Suspicious Death, and punished workers who failed to comply. Women could be fined for failing to work their required hours, or for committing various offenses on camera, including crying or wiping their noses.”
“When one woman, whom I’ll call Lorina Dobre, announced that she wanted to leave soon after the brothers funded her breast enlargement, Tristan instructed the enforcers to keep all her money and belongings to recoup their investment. “Hit her if you have to, I don’t care,” he texted, according to sealed court files. “Throw her out of the house with nothing.” The women were eager to oblige. “I want my money back or I’ll cut her tits off,” Naghel vowed.”
“Dobre later told police that the enforcers arrived at the villa and dragged her outside in her underwear, yanking her arm so hard that it wrenched a scar from her breast-enlargement surgery. “Georgiana wanted to kill her,” Radu wrote to Tristan. “I kept saying ‘beat her without leaving any marks, please.’ ””
““I love you girls,” he replied.”
Here’s what the article says about the Tate brothers’ children:
“Women became pregnant, and Andrew has said that both he and Tristan have “double-digit” children. “I’m the big gorilla,” he said. “I take the fertile females and I impregnate them.””
““My kids obey me like f***ing soldiers,” he said. On his orders, his five-year-old son would sit for hours in silence: “Doesn’t fucking move, doesn’t say a fucking word, because he’s scared for his f***ing life.””
Often targeting young women from troubled homes or women living in poverty, “They trawled dating apps and social media for young women, blasting out hundreds of identical messages and frequently changing their location to expand their reach. Women who responded were romanced. Tate sent one a flurry of questions: Where did she want to travel? Had she ever been skydiving? Had she ever seen a Dubai sunset? Those who proved susceptible were groomed for sex work. “Every day, I sent twenty Instagrams. Every day, I was on a date. I was f***ing four girls, five girls a week,” Tate said in a War Room video.”
Then he had his original girlfriend Hruskova sell them the dream
Then they’d get the victim drunk and have a threesome
Then they’d make them live in their Romanian compound and not permit them to leave
When the social media outreach didn’t sale enough, they recruited female British entrepreneur named Naomi John to launch a recruitment agency called Model Stars which described itself “in promotional materials as an “all-female business,” in which “women help other women to escape the 9-5 work schedule and earn life-changing amounts of money.””
“Over time, their recruitment efforts became more brazen. They began reaching out to high schoolers, and hosted parties for teen-age girls at their compound. Andrew shared a video of one such event with the War Room. “16 year old hoes are all over the house,” he wrote, adding, “More girls = more money.””
“One of Tristan Tate’s top “defenders described Tristan as behaving like a “dictator,” and said that, when she decided to leave, he attacked her verbally and hacked her social-media accounts. One of his associates threatened to set fire to her car.
The Tates’ messages show that they repeatedly ordered associates to punish women by hijacking their social-media accounts and posting pornographic images of them to their followers. When another worker fled the operation, Tristan told Naomi John to log in to her Instagram account and “burn it down.””
Another woman, Liana Vintilla, who grew unhappy was told “by text that he had mafia connections who might try to find her, and that he had the same blood chemistry as a serial killer. A few days earlier, after she wrote him that she was miserable, he had summoned her to his bedroom. There, Vintilla said, he punched her in the face and raped her, squeezing her head painfully between his hands. She said he threatened to get her pregnant and then lock her in a house—so that she would “definitely go crazy.””
The article talks about this
“Court records show that local police sat on at least two reports indicating that the Tates were coercing Romanian women into sex work. Andrew openly discussed bribing law-enforcement officials in War Room chats, and bragged on social media about his connections.”
His efforts were so successful that, despite one new recruit from Miami literally getting the US embassy to raid the Tates’ Romanian compound in which she was trapped, resulting in the women present being taken into custody and an investigation into human trafficking, Andrew and Tristan were quickly released after questioning.
What makes these actions even more evil is that Andrew and his brother actively work to bring it to scale.
For $3,000 to $8,000/month, Andrew Tate’s War Room teaches members how to recruit women in to “sexual slavery” (their words) through tutorials Andrew Tate refers to as his Ph.D. aka “Pimping Hoes Degree.”
In his tutorials, he uses his own victims as case studies
“Tate’s Pimping Hoes Degree course was the core of the curriculum. “Some women are more susceptible to being molded,” Tate told pupils. To gauge a woman’s malleability, members were taught to dismiss her harshly after sex and then demand an act of service—buying coffee or chocolate, cooking a meal. If she complied, she was through to the next level.”
He clearly enabled men to do horrible things:
“One star pupil was a Texan man who said that he was making six figures while his girlfriend streamed for thirteen-hour stretches. He posted a photograph of her bent over a stool in a grimy workspace, next to a table set with what appeared to be lubricant, wipes, and sex toys. “Got her on Chaturbate, and sleeping in the concrete floored garage with no A/C, spiders, and roaches,” he wrote. “Absolutely legendary work,” Tristan responded.”
“The most zealous pimp was a meaty, shaven-headed Romanian named Vlad Obuzic, who ran a webcam studio in Bucharest…. When another member asked Obuzic how he subdued recruits, he gave a recent example. “I took her keyboard and hit her in the head with it. She went in the room and worked 7 hours without any break,” he said, later adding that he had beaten every woman he had been with. Some users were perturbed by Obuzic’s stories. “That just sounds like abuse to me,” one wrote. But the Tates elevated Obuzic; he got his own channel, the Revenge Room, where he taught “raw, uncensored methods of pimping and handling women.” As his status grew, he dispensed lessons on handling local law enforcement. “I had multiple charges for beating people up, hitting them with bricks in the head etc and I just paid 500-1000$ and nothing happened,” he said. “If you position yourself right, corruption suits you.””
“His influence is being felt around the world. Last year, a seventeen-year-old boy in New Jersey allegedly drove his car into two teen-age girls, killing them both, after joking on a live stream about women getting raped by Tate. In Britain, a man who had recently watched about ten of Tate’s videos raped his ex-girlfriend and murdered her, her mother, and her sister using a crossbow. British police have warned that Tate’s teachings are radicalizing young men in a “terrifying” manner and declared that violence against women is a national emergency. Reports of rapes and sexual assaults in British schools—some involving victims as young as five—have soared in the past five years, and education leaders describe violent misogyny spreading on an “epidemic scale.” Similar concerns have been reported across North America and Asia.”
Andrew Tate caught on with the Taliban as he converted to Islam in late 2022.
Shortly after Andrew Tate’s December 2022 arrest in Romania, Sameera Khan (a Tate supporter) hosted or participated in a Twitter Space involving people presenting as Afghan Taliban. Participants reportedly said they were “worried about Andrew Tate,” asked if he was free yet, and stated that Westerners “need Andrew Tate because we are oppressed by feminists.” One named participant claimed affiliation with the Cultural Commission of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.
Accounts operating under names like “Taliban Public Relations Department, Commentary” (@TalibanPRD_ and similar handles, which link to the official Islamic Emirate English site alemarahenglish.af) posted multiple statements of support:
They demanded Andrew Tate’s “immediate release,” claimed the “Taliban Movement” was the only entity exerting diplomatic pressure on Romania for the Tates’ freedom, and stated “The Matrix will not defeat #AndrewTate.”
They offered the Tate brothers Afghan citizenship and “masculine passports” once released, framing this as protection against “kidnapping by #Matrix affiliated nations.”
They compared Afghanistan to Andrew Tate (“Straight, Rugged and Stiff to the point”).
They likened Tate to Julian Assange as “freedom-loving warriors,” mocked figures like Boris Johnson as Matrix members, and said the “Emirates will battle tooth and nail to free” them.
Andrew Tate publicly converted to Islam in October 2022; that conversion ultimately diversified and expanded his audience, especially among young muslim men, while his original audience largely stuck around.
Looking at his subscribers is complicated by bannings/reintroductions:
Mid-2022: Explosive organic growth, especially via TikTok clips (reported in the billions of views).
August 2022: Banned from Instagram (lost ~4.6–4.7 million followers), Facebook, YouTube (~740k subscribers at the time), and TikTok.
Late October 2022: Conversion announced.
November 18, 2022: X/Twitter account reinstated by Elon Musk.
Late December 2022 onward: Arrest in Romania and subsequent legal proceedings generated massive additional publicity.
November 18 2022 when reinstated: ~38K
Two days later: 1M
Late December 2022: 4.1-4.5M
April 2023: 6.4M
Dec 2023: 8.5M
Aug 2024: 9.9M
2025-2026: 10.7-10.85M
Rumble: 1.1-1.2M subscribers, videos get 100K-250K views
Substack: 1.1M subscribers
Because people assumed Andrew Tate was… human, they assumed the same thing I did; that he had a bunch of fleeced-over girlfriends who he treated horribly, but that he wasn’t engaged in actual sex trafficking
It’s hard to blame folks, most right-wing bombasts are ultimately kind, ethical people in private, and Andrew explicitly said things to Blake that implied he’d be baffled if investigators found anything, telling her in an in-person interview: “Show me a victim. Show me a hurt girl. Show me a bruise. Show me a girl chained up. Show me something.”
After Andrew Tate was deplatformed, he signed an agreement with Rumble in which he received $6,000,000/year in exchange for “a weekly quota of five short videos and a thirty-minute live stream.”
According to Blake, “His presence inspired a forty-five-per-cent increase in active users, sending Rumble to first place on the Apple and Google charts. A few months later, Elon Musk bought Twitter and reinstated Tate’s account.”
“When Tate was arrested on human-trafficking charges, his allies defended him. Donald Trump, Jr., called the case “absolute insanity,” and Musk suggested that the authorities were targeting the Tates while ignoring “actual sex trafficking.” [Tucker] Carlson, who had just released a documentary called “The End of Men,” devoted hours of airtime to proclaiming Tate’s innocence; so did the right-wing podcaster Candace Owens. The activist Charlie Kirk praised him onstage. “What he says is so powerful,” Kirk said. “Our society is configured towards collapsing the American man.””
EVEN HEIDI BLAKE, THE AUTHOR OF THIS ARTICLE DOESN’T SEEM TO GET IT
“Despite his mixed heritage, he promoted the great-replacement theory, declaring, “The west is collapsing because it’s full of disgusting traitors. White people who beg to be erased.””
HE IS NOT ACTING LIKE DISAPPEARING WHITE PEOPLE IS BAD; HE’S SAYING THEY’RE DISGUSTING TRAITORS.
[00:00:00] Simone Collins: I just wanna make that clear. Like, I just, the double standard with Tate and Epstein is so unhinged when you know what Tate did and what’s so well documented versus what’s documented with- Mm ... with Jeffrey Epstein. I, I, so I just wanna make that clear. When this video was made, she was 15 years old. Oh my Go- And he beat her so much that he made a themed belt for it.
[00:00:23] Would you like to know more?
[00:00:24] Simone Collins: Hello, Malcolm. I’m so excited to be speaking with you today because we need to talk a little bit about how welcoming our community is. Not that it’s bad. I think it’s good. Like yesterday, we interviewed Ikki Waru, who’d just been canceled, and, like, everyone has been so welcoming to her.
[00:00:39] Like, “Look, y- you’re being reasonable. Like, you’re saying some bombastic stuff, and we love it. Like, come on our side.” And I think it’s great. It, it works out great generally. We help each other out. We learn from each other. We do cool stuff. You know, we don’t agree on everything, but that’s okay. But, but, big but, the, the right made a massive mistake with Andrew Tate.
[00:01:01] And let me give you a case in point, Malcolm. It, it is covered by Heidi Blake in this crazy, sprawling New Yorker- Yeah, you’ve
[00:01:07] Malcolm Collins: gone o- you’ve been wanting to do this episode for days at this point, since
[00:01:11] Simone Collins: we learned- Yeah, well, and I had, and it took me so freaking long ‘cause her piece is so... It’s like a novel.
[00:01:15] The New Yorker has a problem. Like, say it in a word, please. But honestly, there’s so much stuff in here that I get... This is kind of the, the, the kind of piece that you only can publish in The New Yorker. Either that or it’s gonna be a novel, which no one’s gonna read. So maybe this is her best bet to, like, get this out there.
[00:01:30] Malcolm Collins: So go, go into it. Go into it.
[00:01:31] Simone Collins: Right, so here’s, here’s just one case in point, and we’re gonna go way farther than this. But this is, this is meaningful because this is an example of Andrew Tate leveraging the openness and trustingness of the right-wing space, especially online, like, influencer, right-wing influencer spaces- Mm-hmm
[00:01:49] to be super freaking evil and a bad actor
[00:01:52] all right. So both being right loo- wing influencers w- who are from Luton in the UK, Andrew Tate knew Tommy Robinson.
[00:01:59] So Andrew Tate asked Tommy for an introduction to Lauren Southern. And if you’re not familiar with Laura- Lauren Southern, she... And I’m reading now from a quote from the article. “She’d become a darling of the manosphere at the age of 19 with a video titled Why I Am Not Feminist, in which she argued that men were the real victims of an unjust society.”
[00:02:17] Mm. “She followed up with a series of videos in which she trolled women who marched against sexual violence, ridiculing their views and holding up a sign saying, ‘There is no rape culture in the West.’ After getting introduced by Tommy Robinson to Andrew Tate, Lauren was convinced by Andrew Tate to fly out to Romania.”
[00:02:34] Continuing from the article, “She told me that she flew to Bucharest without knowing much about Tate. Robinson had simply said that a kickboxer in Eastern Europe wanted to finance her work. When they arrived, Tate was waiting in one of his supercars, and he insisted on taking her out for lunch alone.
[00:02:49] Over steak, he told her, quote, ‘Everything that you want to hear as a conservative, right-wing woman,’ end quote.” Taking a... Talking about the importance of family and praising her work. Mm. Quote, “’You’re saving Western civilization,’ she remembers him saying. After lunch, they headed to Tate’s compound.” At a long table, Southern listened to, as the brothers laid out their proposal.
[00:03:10] They would fund a new right-wing media venture with her and Robinson in charge if she would use it to pump a cryptocurrency they were planning to launch. The idea, she recalls, was, quote, “Basically, we were gonna create a European nationalist outlet to fleece all these idiots for money,” end quote. Like, first off, that’s not what our community does.
[00:03:32] We don’t, like, get together and try to fleece people over who listen to us.
[00:03:37] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, right?
[00:03:38] Simone Collins: That’s, okay, so I’m, I’m like, huh, huh, okay, hmm. I continue that evening, the Tates took Southern to a club where they ordered bottle service. After a couple of shots of vodka, she recalls, she suddenly felt, quote, “Like my consciousness was collapsing,” end quote.
[00:03:53] Tate carried her to his car, and when she came to, they were on the bed o- at her hotel. Tate started [00:04:00] kissing Southern and pulling off her clothes. She told me that she tried to push his hands away, but he wouldn’t stop. Then he hooked his arm around her neck and started to squeeze. She remembers thinking, “Oh, shit, this guy’s actually going to rape me.”
[00:04:13] Southern was anti-abortion and terrified of getting pregnant. She began pleading with him, quote, “I know what you’re gonna do here. Please wear a condom. Please.” Southern remembers fading in and out of consciousness as Tate raped her, unprotected, and choked her. Afterward, he sat on the edge of the bed and said, “Don’t tell the press I raped you.”
[00:04:31] She remembers saying, “My whole brand is literally talking about how stupid bitches get themselves in situations like this. There’s nothing I can say without destroying my career, so congratulations.” In the car at the airport Southern said she discovered burst blood vessels around her eyes and marks on her neck.
[00:04:47] Back in Toronto, she was examined by a nurse who specialized in sexual assault. On the assessment form, the nurse recorded that Southern had been raped and strangled by, quote, “A well-known male,” end quote, at a hotel in Romania and had suffered an intimate injury. She noted that Southern seemed to be experiencing, quote, “personal , struggles with her belief system” as a result.
[00:05:06] Southern told me that she tried to apply her political convictions to her experience, telling herself that she was at fault for drinking with a man she didn’t know. A month later, she texted Tate, quote, “It was really crappy what you did that night in Bucharest,” she wrote. “I’m not going to tell anyone, obviously, because I was an absolute moron, but I hope you don’t do that to anyone else,” end quote.
[00:05:27] “What did I do?” Tate replied. “I expected tons better from you. This message is some liberal #MeToo BS.” “You literally strangled me when I said I didn’t wanna have sex,” Southern wrote. “You literally told me in the morning, ‘Don’t tell the press I raped you.’ You’re absolutely embarrassing yourself,” he wrote. Tate denied raping Southern, but he bragged to the War Room, this is his, like, club where he teaches men how to do what he does- Yeah
[00:05:52] about spending the night with her, saying that he’d invited her to Romania to discuss a business deal, but quote, “Didn’t invest a effing penny.” So that’s what he does when people trust him in, in this community
[00:06:06] Malcolm Collins: and it, the, by the way, the stuff you’re gonna hear beyond this is as bad as this is so much worse than this.
[00:06:13] Simone Collins: Yeah. And- No, this, this is like the someone had a bad experience with him. This is not the Yeah.
[00:06:20] Malcolm Collins: Well,, I think the in our community broadly, there, there are not many other people in our community where I’m like, “I’m worried they would do this stuff,” because back when Andrew Tate was part of the American online right community, the community was much more manosphere influenced, much more red pill influenced.
[00:06:42] Like, the, Andrew Tate wasn’t the only person like this in these talking spaces.
[00:06:47] Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah ... and- But, the, so here’s the thing. Look, I gave Andrew Tate the benefit of the doubt, and even with stories like this, like, I could kinda be like, “Look, what did you expect?” You know, I’ve been in positions like- No,
[00:06:57] Malcolm Collins: Laura Southern has no reason to lie about this.
[00:07:00] This would do nothing but hurt her brand. The- Yeah ... there is, there is zero benefit to Laura Southern to say- No,
[00:07:06] Simone Collins: and honestly, she, she did not come clean about this for years until, ‘cause you know Andrew Tate i- i- and him and his brother are in, like, some Miami detention center right now because they’re gonna be extradited to the UK, and they’re gonna throw the book at them because there are so many counts against them at this point.
[00:07:23] You’ll see why. But the only reason she came out was because she had documented evidence of this and because she hadn’t been pulled into his actual circle, and then of course lost control of her phones and everything else. She had the evidence. And she could, she could provide testimony and, and contribute to this case, which she realized would be really meaningful.
[00:07:44] So the only reason she came out was she saw all these other women coming out and was like, “Oh, God,” like-
[00:07:49] Malcolm Collins: Y- yeah ... “I have
[00:07:50] Simone Collins: to do this.” Well,
[00:07:51] Malcolm Collins: I, I mean, I, I do wish she had come out earlier because I think that, like, i- i- even, even if to use herself as an example of a woman [00:08:00] being dumb and to remind women not to just trust men because they’re saying the right-wing talking
[00:08:04] Simone Collins: points.
[00:08:04] You can understand her cognitive dissonance, though, because she just spent, like, all this time talking about how this happened, and she just, she did it. She fell right into it. Yeah. Like, that’s what’s so screwed up. Also, there were other women who came forward 10 years before any of this happened who provided their cell phones, turned them over, and there were a combination of fumbles made by the UK police.
[00:08:25] Surprise, surprise, they’re not really taking, you know, sexual assault seriously.
[00:08:29] Malcolm Collins: Oh, gosh. Keystone Cops.
[00:08:30] Simone Collins: It’s,
[00:08:31] Malcolm Collins: it is horrifying. Well, I mean, sexual assault by a, a Muslim immigrant, right? You know, how-
[00:08:34] Simone Collins: Well, he wasn’t a
[00:08:35] Malcolm Collins: Muslim then ... we know how seriously they take that in the UK.
[00:08:37] Simone Collins: Well, I, and I know. Like, that’s kinda the thing is it kinda doesn’t matter who it is because, like, they, they don’t take it, and so she even had given them her phone.
[00:08:44] Wi- the, well actually, I think there were three of those victims in this 10 years ago case. And, and then they flubbed the chain of custody, which made it almost impossible to admit that as evidence. So even when there were super solid extremely early cases against the Tate brothers- Nothing happened.
[00:09:02] And that was- And
[00:09:02] Malcolm Collins: I wanna be clear to, to people on the right who are manosphere whatever and are like, “Oh, these women got themselves into these situations,” or whatever. You cannot be anti-abortion and treat SA as not murder. Like, it’s, it’s in the same realm as murder if you are extremely anti-abortion.
[00:09:21] Simone Collins: And- Well, and you know, I, I, I still... Like, I knew, we all knew, we all collectively knew that Andrew Tate used the lover boy scheme to, like, get all these women to come be like, OnlyFans and, and more for him, right? Like, we knew that. Everyone knew that. That was well-known. Yeah. But he used, he was funny, he was smart, he said funny things, and we just figured, look, it’s all consensual, and a lot of women are into this.
[00:09:45] Like, they, they would, they would like the money, they’d like the lifestyle, they probably don’t have be- other better options. Like, it’s not great, but, like, this is his thing. This i- eh, this isn’t, this isn’t what happened. I, I mean, like,
[00:09:58] Malcolm Collins: th-
[00:09:58] Simone Collins: this
[00:09:58] Malcolm Collins: is what they wanted you to think Th- no, it was just straight up rape, like, a lot of the time.
[00:10:00] Simone Collins: Well, let’s, let’s get into it. Yeah. And hold on- Let’s
[00:10:02] Malcolm Collins: just- Hold on. Before we get into it, a, a quick aside I wanna make here, and what I think we can use this episode to do-
[00:10:07] Simone Collins: Yeah ...
[00:10:08] Malcolm Collins: is I think there’s sort of two categories of bad actors in our wider community.
[00:10:14] Simone Collins: Mm.
[00:10:14] Malcolm Collins: And i- in terms of identifying them, using this episode as a way to identify one category of them.
[00:10:21] Simone Collins: Oh.
[00:10:21] Malcolm Collins: One group are grifters who, like, clearly have a soul and a conscience and just don’t care about the damage they’re doing. Right,
[00:10:30] Simone Collins: right, right.
[00:10:31] Malcolm Collins: They- Like people like Nick Fuentes, right? Like- Mm ... he’s, he’s clearly a, like, he wouldn’t do... I would be shocked- No,
[00:10:37] Simone Collins: I think, I think- ...
[00:10:38] Malcolm Collins: if I
[00:10:38] Simone Collins: heard he did something like this
[00:10:38] no, there’s the talk a big game people. Nick Fuentes falls into that category. Whereas I don’t, I don’t think that Nick Fuentes has a long track record of rape and assault and human trafficking. No,
[00:10:48] Malcolm Collins: and I don’t, I don’t think he would. Yeah ... and then there’s a, he just doesn’t think about the long-term consequences of the things that he’s preaching, right?
[00:10:54] Yeah. He, he just clearly doesn’t think these things through if through not thinking them through he’s able to make himself look cooler or bigger or edgier or whatever, right? Like, there are long-term implications. With Tate, it’s completely different. Tate is a different kind of an entity. When we talk about somebody being, like, a pre-Adamite or something like that, like, genuinely lacking the capacity, which you’re gonna see as these stories go on, for moral judgment and reasoning to the point that if this was a, a, a normal and just society, you just put somebody like this down.
[00:11:28] Like, there’s no reason to leave him alive given the, the ways that he has treated other human beings repeatedly, repeatedly, repeatedly. And moreover it
[00:11:39] Simone Collins: would- It’s, and it’s even worse than that, and I’ll get into
[00:11:41] Malcolm Collins: Okay, get into it. Get into it.
[00:11:43] Simone Collins: Because yeah, it’s... You’ll see. It’s not even the fact that he’s done this himself, it’s the fact that he brings it to scale which is even more disgusting.
[00:11:50] Like, the knock-on effects of what he does
[00:11:52] Octavian Collins: in that helicopter because I need to get all
[00:11:54] Simone Collins: of them in the helicopter The helicopter. I love the way he pronounces helicopter.
[00:11:57] Octavian Collins: Oh,
[00:11:58] Malcolm Collins: okay. So it’s full. So you just move the [00:12:00] helicopter to wherever you need to go, then you unload it.
[00:12:02] Hey, th- this, this kid’s got style. I got him a game console with all the games for, for ever ‘til forever are on it. And our entire childhood, and he plays Command & Conquer. Now, I don’t think that’s the best game to play on a Game Boy style console, but at least he’s, you know, got, got class. Continue.
[00:12:20] Simone Collins: You gotta start ‘em early, yeah.
[00:12:22] Just for anyone’s reference the very long New Yorker article is called Andrew Tate’s Empire of Abuse. It’s very good. It’s by Heidi Blake. She did a bang-up job. And I actually super relate to this article because she came in and she met with them, and, like, wanted to really get to know them and spend time with them and be with them IRL, in much the same way that many journalists have approached us.
[00:12:43] And I think that they’re very accustomed to journalists approaching them to do hit pieces. And they knew that this was a journalist approaching them to do hit pieces, and they thought that they were so above... malcolm, this looks bad. It looks like you’re trying to do lines of cocaine. I know you’re, like, blowing your nose or something, but, like, it looks like you’re doing lines.
[00:13:03] It’s so sus. I
[00:13:04] Malcolm Collins: literally just did naltrexone on, on screen.
[00:13:07] Simone Collins: Look, yes, you could hit the cocaine. You, th- then no
[00:13:10] Malcolm Collins: problems. The cocaine wouldn’t work. I...
[00:13:12] Simone Collins: It’s just, it’s performative. It’s performative ice, you know? It’s what our movement’s all about. Anyway, it just didn’t look good. I was just... I can wait. Are you done?
[00:13:21] I’ll g- I’ll go
[00:13:22] Malcolm Collins: get a beer. Do you wanna- I’ll
[00:13:22] Simone Collins: go get a beer. Okay. Were you trying to reach a beer? Were you trying to... Wait, were you trying to open your fridge with your sword? Don’t answer that question, actually. I love you. But yeah, I, I, I can, I can relate to this article a lot because we have been approached, right, by many journalists who want to do- Mm-hmm
[00:13:37] in-depth, like, profiles. And that is exactly what Heidi Blake presented herself as doing to the Tate brothers. She’s like, “Look, I’m from The New Yorker, I’m doing an in-depth profile,” blah, blah, blah. And they’re like, “Look, I know everyone trying to approach me from the media, especially if they’re female and working with, like, a liberal elite news outlet, is going to try to do a hit piece, but we are...
[00:13:58] You know, if she tries to, like, catch stuff on us, she won’t get anything.” That’s what they thought, and they didn’t realize what an absolute pro Heidi Blake is, and how many- Well,
[00:14:08] Malcolm Collins: that she was gonna talk to everyone who’d talked to them, right? And,
[00:14:11] Simone Collins: and- Yes, and... Well, and that’s... Actually, the thing is, no, they, they’re actually very good and sophisticated at getting the women that they work with to defend them.
[00:14:18] So they thought they had all their bases covered. They didn’t realize what a bulldog this woman is. Heidi Blake, man, like, wow. Next level. Like, I... Journalism isn’t dead, you know? The... It’s, it’s- Yeah ... still alive in some places. She absolutely, you know, court records, like, tons of stuff she’s gone through.
[00:14:35] It’s, it’s utterly unhinged, but awesome. I lo- I love- Mm-hmm ... that level of autism. It’s my kind of autism. But yeah, definitely read the article if you a- actually wanna go through it. I, I agonized over figuring out what to, what to include, because there’s so much. But let’s just start with a bit of an overview of the...
[00:14:50] Oh of the, the, the depravity of, of the Tate brothers, okay? Let’s just start right off the bat focusing with some early career stuff with him just assaulting and raping women, not just for fun, but because he thought it would lead them to not require payment in exchange for camgirl work. And this started with two young women who are referred to as Walker and Navarro in the article, who he recruited in the UK after learning from one of his girlfriends how much he could make.
[00:15:20] So, here’s from the article.. “But Tate was already coming to resent paying Navarro and Walker a cut of their earnings. Hristova...” That’s, that’s his sort of like first OG girlfriend that he used for cam work. “... Hristova let him keep 100% of the effing money,” he later said.
[00:15:38] But he complained, “Once you get bigger, you start hiring girls that don’t love you.” He decided on a strategy. “I have a financial incentive to F as many as I can.” Just a note about Hristova, this, this first woman he exploited. Yeah. He reported in private chats that her livestreams had made him around $2 million, but all she got was pocket money for [00:16:00] coffee and manicures.
[00:16:02] The money he made off these women. Oh my God. Even before this, when
[00:16:05] Malcolm Collins: he did give- and also note for people who, who do not know this so few things to know about him. One, and I think he made this clear, he sees his followers as people to scam. That’s-
[00:16:13] Simone Collins: 100%, yes.
[00:16:14] Malcolm Collins: That’s why, that was the first thing. When you look at his early videos the way that he made money is he’d have the girls doing stuff, and then he would be the one in chat talking to the guys to get money from them, pretending to be the girl.
[00:16:27] Mm-hmm. Andrew Tate literally made his early career money pretending to suck dick.
[00:16:31] Like that is his level of dedication.
[00:16:35]
[00:16:35] Speaker 19: Just, give me a chance.
[00:16:41] Speaker 18: Alright, I’ll trust you. But only if you... Will perform oral sex on me. What? Right here, right now.
[00:16:57] Speaker 19: You can’t be serious. Oh, I am serious.
[00:17:00] Speaker 18: Okay, let’s do it. Here we go. And, go.
[00:17:18] You are dedicated.
[00:17:20] Speaker 19: We’re doing this without you!
[00:17:22] Speaker 18: Now hold on, team. Gary has already proven to me that he is 100 percent committed to the team. He proved it last night by sucking my cock.
[00:17:34] Speaker 19: Alright. Come on, team, we gotta find that stage!
[00:17:37] Malcolm Collins: Good God, Paul. But it, but it also shows it, you know, if you’re a guy and you’re like, “I’d be really disgusted if I knew that they’re with some like Muslim immigrant in the UK like making money off of me.” That, Andrew Tate is that. He’s-
[00:17:48] Simone Collins: Okay, so I continue. And just I wanna make it clear, too, in the, in the few instances early, early on when he did give these new girls cash, he immediately would take them to, like, a shopping mall and be like, “Look, you’ve made so much money.
[00:18:02] Now spend it all.” And then they would blow it all on, like, designer clothing. So they didn’t have money, so they couldn’t get away, so they couldn’t build any wealth, right? And this is a really classic way of exploiting people, where you, like, get them hooked on thinking that by being with you they can make money.
[00:18:18] But then you make sure that they are perpetually broke. And, and
[00:18:21] Malcolm Collins: that
[00:18:21] Simone Collins: is-
[00:18:21] Malcolm Collins: Okay,
[00:18:22] Simone Collins: continue.
[00:18:22] Malcolm Collins: Go to the, go to the actual bad stuff. Continue.
[00:18:24] Simone Collins: Okay. Here’s what it was like to be in this house in these early days, before it got even worse. One morning, Navarro who by the way, was stranded at, at this house that Tate made the move to because he wouldn’t drive her home and she lacked money for a car to get out, woke up to Tate and Walker having sex next to her.
[00:18:41] She shushed him, and Walker got up and went to the bathroom. When she was gone, Navarro said, Tate put her in a chokehold and raped her for the second time. Although she clawed at his arms, he wouldn’t release his grip. “I was scared that he was going to kill me,” she told me. Then Walker emerged from the shower and he rolled off her.
[00:18:57] Later, Navarro said she was working on camera and she heard strange noises and went to investigate. Though through the open door she saw Tate strangling Walker on the bed. Walker’s face was red and puffy and her body was limp. Navarro said she felt a strange paralysis. “I was like, there’s nothing I can do about it,” she told me, and she went back to work.
[00:19:16] The following morning, Navarro and Walker were putting on makeup in the bathroom when they noticed clusters of red spots around their eyes. Walker searched online and saw that petechiae, bl- burst blood lefel, level, sorry, burst blood vessels can be a sign of acute pressure in the head from strangulation.
[00:19:32] Okay, good. The women began to panic. Hearing a commotion, the Tates came to the door. When they saw the marks, they laughed. “You’re such dumb bitches,” Navarro remembers them saying. “That’s from sleep- being on the sh- the silk sheets.” Navarro said that Tate started attacking her at random times. Multiple times.
[00:19:49] When she slept late, he whipped her with a belt. Time became a blur, and the world outside the apartment seemed to recede. But one day Navarro had a moment alone and something snapped. She walked out the door and never went [00:20:00] back. Of course, this is before he stopped women from escaping. He also abused women on camera.
[00:20:05] In one video that came out, Tate lay on a bed and ordered Krizova, this original girlfriend, to show the camera her tattoo. And because it said, like, property of Andrew Tate right over her, her nethers. Yeah. He, he asks in this video, “Why does it say Tate?” He asked. “Because I’m his whore,” she replied. “Why has your ass got a bruise on it?”
[00:20:24] “Because Daddy hits me,” she responds. Tate picked up a belt and began wisp- whipping Hraskova as she lay in the fetal position sobbing. “Bitch, look at the camera,” he told her, yanking her head up by her hair. “This is what happens when you don’t effing listen.” Okay, so when this, th- this footage of this video was released online, Andrew Tate said that Hraskova was an ex-girlfriend and shared a photo of her holding a belt inscribed with the words, “But I love it when Andrew spanks me.”
[00:20:52] So first off, in this video, Andrew Tate... Sorry. Octavian, you need to go downstairs. You cannot show me until I come down, okay? Thank you. I love you When this video was made, she was 15 years old. Oh my Go- And he beat her so much that he made a themed belt for it. Meanwhile, we are, we are crapping bricks over Epstein.
[00:21:21] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, and they, but his stuff isn’t like act- it’s like 15-year-olds and stuff. Like-
[00:21:25] Simone Collins: , It’s kids the same fricking age, but he didn’t whip them so much that he made a theme belt for it. He was creepy, but he didn’t choke them while he raped them, like, at least to our knowledge, right? I mean, there’s a lot of weird stuff with Epstein.
[00:21:41] Yeah, but he, he- It’s just funny to me that like- He
[00:21:42] Malcolm Collins: obviously did, but it’s like, this is like out there, very visible, something he’s sharing with the world, and there’s still people who act like this is a, a normal
[00:21:55] Simone Collins: right stuff. No, he’s still an icon for a bunch of people. Yeah, and I think the thing is- Well, I
[00:21:57] Malcolm Collins: don’t know.
[00:21:58] At one point he was the number one right-wing influencer in the world. This was- He’s
[00:22:03] Simone Collins: bigger now than he ever was before.
[00:22:05] Malcolm Collins: No, he’s half the followers now.
[00:22:07] Simone Collins: Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. I checked.
[00:22:09] Malcolm Collins: Oh, is it because of the
[00:22:09] Simone Collins: Muslims? He’s bigger now than ever before. Yeah. That’s, that’s a big factor of it. We’ll get into that too.
[00:22:13] Let’s, let’s get into this. Because it’s their version. So I just wanna make it clear, the underage girl thing wasn’t just a one-time thing with this first girl that he, like, recruited and exploited. This was something that he then turned to again when he started to scale his operations in Romania after fleeing the UK because he realized the police were gonna start sniffing around.
[00:22:32] Here’s just one example from the testimony of a woman who’s called ps- pseudonymously Irina Pavel.
[00:22:39] Malcolm Collins: I, I’d also... B- the, the, the absolute cuckedness of anyone on the right who acts like Andrew Tate is, like, cool or okay- Mm-hmm ... and then is mad about Muslim rape gangs in the UK. It’s
[00:22:51] Simone Collins: like, bro- I know,
[00:22:52] Malcolm Collins: I know.
[00:22:52] He’s a Muslim ... bro, that’s like your actual idol.
[00:22:55] Simone Collins: I
[00:22:55] Malcolm Collins: know. A Muslim rape gang guy.
[00:22:58] Simone Collins: Well, like, he didn’t grow up... I mean, he converted in 2022. He converted. But
[00:23:01] Malcolm Collins: anyway. But, yeah, I mean, culturally. Now
[00:23:02] Simone Collins: he is. Yeah, no, he’s, he’s he’s trans Muslim. He’s Muslim in spirit. Okay? So anyway anyway, so we’re, we’re talking about this this testimony of, of a Romanian young woman.
[00:23:13] When Pavel was 15, she told investigators she had accompanied a school friend to a party hosted by the Tates which was full of young girls. Her friend paired off with Tristan, leaving her with Andrew, who was so drunk that he spat as he talked. He pulled her into a bedroom and raped her, she said.
[00:23:29] Afterward, some of the Tates’ female friends persuaded the girls to stick around for several days, and Tate kept having sex with Pavel. “We had normal oral and anal sexual relations, but I mentioned that the anal sexual acts were traumatic for me because I was in pain,” she told investigators. “Even though I asked Andrew to stop, he continued.”
[00:23:51] Great. The girls eventually had to go back to school, but Pavel said the Tates sent a taxi every few weeks to bring them back to the compound. Tate was [00:24:00] often aggressive, beating her with a belt and choking her. But he also bought her teddy bears. I don’t, I don’t care for this girl at all. He also bought her teddy bears.
[00:24:05] Malcolm Collins: I
[00:24:07] Simone Collins: don’t
[00:24:07] Malcolm Collins: care. She- he
[00:24:07] Simone Collins: sent a
[00:24:08] Malcolm Collins: taxi to her school. She could have not gotten in.
[00:24:10] Simone Collins: This is true. This is true, but he... It’s just creepy to me that he actively recruits schoolgirls and buys them teddy bears, and then, like, anally rapes them. So I’m just... Yeah. I, I
[00:24:19] Malcolm Collins: mean, that’s, that’s... Yeah, that’s one thing, but by the way, you, you need to use way more other words so YouTube doesn’t get mad at us for
[00:24:25] Simone Collins: this episode.
[00:24:25] Okay, so I will... Okay, I will correct that, yes. Hang in there with me. There’s... I, I, I did censor a lot of this article, but it’s really hard to. Okay. So another thing that Tate did is he deputized other women to hurt the other women. So this is on top of, of Andrew Tate playing women against each other. I think it’s obvious and, I mean, it’s also well documented in the article that he’d tell one woman, “Look, I’m in love with you. I only have eyes for you. This other woman, she’s just for the cam work.” And then he’d say exactly the same thing to the other women.
[00:24:54] So he, you know, everyone thought that he had eyes only for them and he cared about- I don’t care.
[00:24:57] Malcolm Collins: Again, I don’t care. That’s just a normal guy manipulating
[00:25:00] Simone Collins: women But on top of that, right, Tate had assigned Georgiana Nagel to, quote, “Keep the farm animals on task”, and a former police officer named Luana Radu was brought in to work alongside her.
[00:25:12] The two were a ferocious team. They issued instructions through a WhatsApp group called Suspicious Death that punished workers who failed to comply. Women who would be, could be fined for failing to work their required hours or for committing various offenses on camera, including crying or wiping their noses.
[00:25:29] When one woman, who I’ll call Lorena Deb- Dobra, announced that she wanted to leave soon after the brothers funded her breast enlargement, Tristan instructed the enforcers to keep all her money and belongings to recoup their investment. “Hit her if you have to. I don’t care,” he texted, according to sealed court files.
[00:25:48] “Throw her out of the house with nothing.” The women were eager to oblige. “I want my money back or I’ll cut her tits off,” Nagel vowed. Dobra later told police that the enforcers arrived at the villa and dragged her outside in her underwear, yanking her arm so hard it wretched, it wrenched a scar from her breast enlargement surgery.
[00:26:07] “Georgiana wanted to kill her,” Radu wrote to Tristan. “I kept saying, ‘Beat her without leaving any marks, please.’ ‘I love you girls,’ he replied.” Also, Tate abuses his children. I used to picture Andrew and his brother Tristan in their weird little harem house with their little tater tots running around, like, having kind of found some weird, like- Brother, sister wives fantasy.
[00:26:34] Like, that they made it work for themselves, right? Like, that it wasn’t- Yeah ... my thing, but like-
[00:26:38] Malcolm Collins: By the way, they, they share wives for people who are unaware. No,
[00:26:40] Simone Collins: they don’t. They will fuck- No, they have dedicated heroines.
[00:26:42] Malcolm Collins: No, no, no. No. I have read articles. They absolutely have slept with each other’s wives.
[00:26:47] Simone Collins: Oh.
[00:26:47] Well, yes, but then they, they have
[00:26:50] Malcolm Collins: like- Yeah, the, the, the one wife is one of their wives, but the other one’s allowed to have sex with her. The, the, the, this has been docu-
[00:26:56] Simone Collins: Polygamists? Yeah. Well, anyway-
[00:26:58] Malcolm Collins: This has been documented by the key wives that they have had sex with the other one. Like-
[00:27:02] Simone Collins: Oh, well, yes. I don’t have doubts about it.
[00:27:03] That’s, that’s probably fair. But anyway, the, the, she, the way she specified it in her article Heidi Blake, was that they kind of had their own respective domains, but they’re all mixing together anyway. So the article also states women became pregnant and Andrew said that both he and Tristan have, quote, “double digit children.”
[00:27:20] “I’m the big gorilla,” he said. “I take the fertile females and I impregnate them.” And I really think that that’s It’s, it’s it’s very direct in that he is a very, like, pre-Adamite human. He does- Yeah ... he lacks the judgment to, to make moral decisions, and just literally is an alpha male pre-human human, incapable of-
[00:27:42] Malcolm Collins: Who believes that morality is alpha maleness.
[00:27:44] No, when he converted- Yeah ... to Islam, a lot of people asked, “Oh, is he being paid by Qatar or the UAE- Mm-mm ... or something like that to convert?” No, this
[00:27:53] Simone Collins: is just what
[00:27:54] Malcolm Collins: he- The, the, the reality is, is look at this guy, his morality and his lifestyle. [00:28:00] What, what would it mean for him if he converted to Christianity and he actually believed any of it, right?
[00:28:06] Mm-hmm. Like, he’s absolutely fucked in a, any sort of Christian metaphysical ecosystem. But Islam actually, e- especially if he isn’t technically married, Mm-hmm ... like the really big sexual punishments in Islam, the death punishment for that and everything, happens to married men, not unmarried men.
[00:28:24] Simone Collins: Mm-hmm.
[00:28:24] Malcolm Collins: Mm-hmm. So he actually can get away with a lot of this stuff.
[00:28:29] Simone Collins: But yeah, there’s actually a pretty decent theological argument he could make within the confines of Islam- That these are cuck- ... especially around female slaves.
[00:28:36] Malcolm Collins: Yeah.
[00:28:36] Simone Collins: Because n- he very much sees his process of converting leads, as it were, as a process of converting women into slaves.
[00:28:46] So I mean, like per Islamic law, it would be, you know, it’s a very different kind of thing.
[00:28:52] Malcolm Collins: So yeah. Yeah, he’s not doing anything wrong per- Per, yeah ... Islamic law to these slaves. Yes. Mm-hmm.
[00:28:56] Simone Collins: Mm-hmm. Yeah, like, and yeah, so the, the morality works-
[00:29:02] Malcolm Collins: And I think that that’s- ... in that framing ... why he converted. And a lot of people just don’t understand the fullness of what is allowed by the Islamic moral system.
[00:29:12] Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I, I have heard this. Even in like big takedowns of hellish Islamic marriages where there are four wives and they’re all being treated very poorly, these are still men with four wives because they haven’t, they lack the intelligence of Tate, and that’s, that’s the other problem.
[00:29:28] Malcolm Collins: Well, and there’s, and there’s, there’s rules in Islam about how you can treat your, your wives.
[00:29:31] Simone Collins: Right, but that’s the key thing, wives. And- Yeah, again,
[00:29:37] Malcolm Collins: and the
[00:29:38] Simone Collins: problem with entertaining his brother-
[00:29:39] Malcolm Collins: And again, if you wanna be like, “Oh, Muhammad did this,” Muhammad had sex slaves. This is well documented. Like- It is, yeah
[00:29:42] no major scholar disagrees that Muhammad had sex slaves, and the Quran says this innumerably. It’s not like one line or something like that. It’s like a major theme.
[00:29:53] Simone Collins: Yeah.
[00:29:53] Malcolm Collins: So-
[00:29:53] So I actually started thinking more about this and I think I’ll do a whole episode on this concept but your idea of the afterlife significantly affects how you treat the people around you And one of the problems when you contrast So I’ll take two contrasting religions We’ll take Mormonism and Islam and what each thinks happens to them in the afterlife So if I’m a Mormon and I die I think that I am going to spend forever tied to my wife or multiple wives if I remarried working together to try to create on like a project to try to create a new moral planet as a god or something like this This means that it is incredibly important that I am nice to my wife and I have a good relationship with her because if I do not for the rest of all eternity my life is going to be miserable Now for Islam men believe even if you just take the Quran and you remove the Hadith you remove the seventytwo virgins whatever there’s this additional class of female basically a sex slave that’s all I can call them They are clearly meant to be attractive females who act as additional wives to the men who appear in heaven Now the women are still married to the men in heaven They still get them But like if I was a Muslim I would believe that my wife and I when we die we go into heaven and I have a number of additional wives in addition to Simone that are there for the specific purpose of my sexual satisfaction and being nice to me Um and this means that I don’t really need to you know if my wife if I have a bad relationship with her she’s pretty disposable once I get to heaven Uh now the way that Islam deals with this is it’ll say something like Well once you get to heaven your desire to not be jealous of your husband’s actions or for your husband’s time is removed from you Um which okay fine That doesn’t sound totally moral to me but fine [00:32:00] Uh the problem is is the way that this shapes what the male thinks they are condemning themselves to And this is also and I hate to say this for traditional Christians I kind of think the Mormon concept of an afterlife not a Mormon I criticize Mormonism regularly leads to more moral behavior in a relationship than the traditional Christian one because in the traditional Christian one there’s no marriage in heaven You’re all sort of doing your own thing Um and so you you don’t need your relationship to be perfect forever whereas I think that expectation that you get to an extent with integrate Puritanism as well uh does lead to better behavior patterns
[00:32:43] Simone Collins: And the capacity to do harm in this respect is so much worse when you’re smart, and both he and his brother are very intelligent, meaning that, like, their capacity to scale their, their harm and depravity is so, so much higher, which is extra scary.
[00:32:58] That, yeah, intelligence in the absence of morality is one of the
[00:33:00] Malcolm Collins: scariest things in the house. But before you get into what he does to his kids, the second point I wanna make is I think that he bases himself above all else, like when he’s deciding how he wants to act, it’s what would the most masculine man act like in this situation?
[00:33:12] That’s who I need to embody, is maximum man. Mm. And If we are asking who, like, what’s a red flag for somebody in our wider ecosystem and to just not platform them and generally work against them, is it’s anyone who’s presenting that way. I think the maximum man archetype, every time I see these guys for, like, a long time in their career, they always go evil eventually.
[00:33:40] Mm. Or it turns out there was some big scandal they were hiding, or it turns out blah blah blah. Whereas, and, and note this isn’t saying, like, not all manosphere influencers went for that. Like, Sandman, who we’ve had on the podcast before and is, like, the biggest MGTOW influencer he was never about, like, maximal manishness.
[00:33:58] Simone Collins: No, he’s eminently reasonable. Yeah, like, and that’s, I think that’s the really im- this is one of the big insidious problems and, and why I think a lot of people accepted Andrew Tate with such open arms. They would hear him say bombastic things, but they understand and are familiar with the very logical side of the manosphere movement, which is like, “Look, this is the evolutionary psychology.
[00:34:19] These are the economic dynamics. This is the market. This is a screwed-up and broken system. I’m not having it. Here’s how I’m gonna navigate it.” But these aren’t people coming from a fundamentally inhumane view of, like, society. Yeah. These aren’t people who enjoy hurting other people. Like, in the end, they just want everyone to be, like, happy, and they don’t wanna be screwed over, and they don’t like how the system works.
[00:34:42] And so they assume that while Andrew Tate talks a big game, they think, like, that, that, that Andrew Tate and his brother think like they do, and they don’t. And that’s a problem. I, it, you tend to think that if, if you like someone and you can have a fun conversation and get along with them, that they likely hold the same values and beliefs that you do, and many people are shocked when they discover that this isn’t always the case.
[00:35:03] But it’s a very common human psychological fallacy and something that Andrew Tate and his brother have exploited to,
[00:35:10] Malcolm Collins: to high heaven. Well, no, I think that there’s, like, a lot of guys in the manosphere or whatever who, like, you know, might be do, into doing BDSM things or, like, sadist things or whatever, and their girls are into it or whatever, right?
[00:35:20] Simone Collins: Mm.
[00:35:20] Malcolm Collins: And they confuse that relationship, the type of, you know, maybe, like, hardcore relationship you might have in the United States or Britain in, in terms of, like, cultural backgrounds or y- you know, any w- any of the, the, what, what’s the word for it, Christian nations a- as being the same type of thing that Andrew Tate is getting up to because they hear some, like, analogous stuff.
[00:35:42] Simone Collins: Yeah, like we all understand that, like, a, a disturbingly disproportionate of, of number of people do get turned on by choking, for example. That is a very deadly Instead of, yeah, but, but, but Like you, you really shouldn’t indulge in it. But so they hear that. They’re like, “Oh, well Andrew, you know, Tate chokes women in bed.
[00:35:57] Like that, people just have that kink.” They don’t realize what’s really happening [00:36:00] though.
[00:36:00] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. Which is- They make the wrong inference ... a totally different thing, and Andrew Tate sort of manipulates the fact that women have manipulated these guys for so long- Yes, yeah ... to not see that now Andrew Tate is the one manipulating them.
[00:36:11] Yeah, yeah. And exploiting them.
[00:36:12] Simone Collins: Exactly, exactly.
[00:36:13] Malcolm Collins: Through women, ironically.
[00:36:15] Simone Collins: Yeah. I know, I know.
[00:36:17] Malcolm Collins: Andrew Tate’s like, “Here’s how women exploit men in our society. Now I will do that to make lots of money from men.”
[00:36:23] Simone Collins: Yeah, absolutely. I- Look, and just about those high school girls, Malcolm, this was the same with all of the Jeffrey Epstein victims.
[00:36:31] They came and went as they please. I just wanna make that clear. Like, I just, the double standard with Tate and Epstein is so unhinged when you know what Tate did and what’s so well documented versus what’s documented with- Mm ... with Jeffrey Epstein. I, I, so I just wanna make that clear. All of his victims could technically walk away, too.
[00:36:50] So.
[00:36:52] Malcolm Collins: Wait, Epstein’s?
[00:36:52] Simone Collins: Yeah.
[00:36:53] Malcolm Collins: No.
[00:36:55] Simone Collins: Which ones couldn’t walk away?
[00:36:56] Malcolm Collins: The ones on the ranch. They were confined. The, the, we got their diaries and stuff like that. But also note that some of Andrew Tate’s victims couldn’t walk away either.
[00:37:04] Simone Collins: Oh yeah, totally. Yeah. We’ll, we’ll, we’ll get to that. Anyway, about his kids, who definitely can’t walk away about his kids, Andrew Tate said, “My kids obey me like effing soldiers,” he said.
[00:37:13] On his orders, his five-year-old son would sit for hours in silent. “Doesn’t effing move, doesn’t say an effing word, because he’s scared for his effing life.” Does that sound like a child that’s getting treated well?
[00:37:27] Malcolm Collins: Well, it doesn’t, it, it, it depends on the society. Some societies love obedience. And this is why in our early episodes, Jordan Peterson promotes a similar style of parenting, you know.
[00:37:38] Like, you’ve gotta outwo- outdo the child and get the child to sit down and obey and listen to you, and it’s like, I don’t want my child to listen to me. I want my child to be, like, maximally willful. That’s the entire point of the way that we raise our kids. And it’s raised kids who are astonishingly nice.
[00:37:54] I’m gonna say, like, will maxing our kids has made our kids, like, the nicest, most honorable people I have ever seen. Like, I do not fall close to the category of default just ho- honorability of, like, Octavia, right? In terms of, like, just yesterday one of our other kids, we, you know, some of the kids got their meal first and one of the other ones was like, “Well, when do I get mine?”
[00:38:17] It’s like, he gets his meal, and he walks around, and he gives it to them, and he goes, “Don’t worry, I haven’t taken any bites out of it yet. You can have this quicker.” And there’s no reason. Or somebody’s w- worried about something or crying about something, so he immediately goes and gets it. Or the little one wants to get out of her crib thing, so he’ll crawl into the crib, then lift her up and dump her out on the floor.
[00:38:38] But while putting something, like, soft under her at first, you know. But just really awesome, and I think that the point isn’t to just raise kids. It’s to raise kids who can work together to crush the type of children that somebody like Andrew Tate will raise. And you can always have more. I mean, this is what we’ve seen with Israel versus the countries around it.
[00:38:58] It doesn’t matter if you’re just pumping out tons of kids. If you don’t have technology, you’re not gonna be able to force project. Mm. And o- or, or the ability to coordinate in mass. And Andrew Tate is sort of re- raising the archetypical w- weak child example. That would’ve worked in some historical context, but it, it not good in this world.
[00:39:19] Simone Collins: Not in our modern context. But continue. Yeah So, the way that they scaled their operations is, is pretty messed up. I mean, they, they sort of exhausted Instagram and social media networks really quickly, and they focused on young women who were from impoverished or really, really messed up backgrounds.
[00:39:39] Like they’d been abused or whatever. I mean, like common recruiting tactic, obviously, for victims. Yeah. So after that they, Same
[00:39:46] Malcolm Collins: as Epstein.
[00:39:47] Simone Collins: I know.
[00:39:47] Malcolm Collins: I know. These two guys would’ve been b- such bros.
[00:39:49] Simone Collins: I know. No, for real. It’s like they were sharing notes. They they then hired a female British entrepreneur named Naomi John to launch a recruitment [00:40:00] agency that they called Model Stars, which described itself in promotional materials as, “An all-female business in which women help other women to escape 95 work schedule and earn life-changing amounts of money.”
[00:40:11] Where basically Naomi would manage all these women, who would never see directly their earnings, and then she would take a huge cut, send a huge cut to the Tates, and then the girls would get a pittance basically. And then over time they started to reach out to high schoolers, and then they would host parties at their compound.
[00:40:29] Mm-hmm ... and Andrew Tate would even share videos of these with the War Room his super expensive subscription class. Saying like, “16-year-old hoes are all over the house,” he wrote, adding, “More girls equals more money,” which is super sick. And the way he would recruit women is both he and Tate would like- Is hone in on one, love bomb her, tell her big stories.
[00:40:53] And you know, these are women who are impoverished, who’ve like, like probably left their, left, never left their local town. “I will fly,” you know, “Do you wanna see the sunset in Dubai? Have you ever f- you know, ridden in a Bugatti? Have you ever like flown in a plane or gone skydiving?” Right. Mm-hmm. So they’re selling this huge thing and acting super nice and having these huge conversations with them.
[00:41:12] Then they bring them over, and then they have sex with them, and then they they have the original girlfriend, Hristova, sell them on this dream of like, “I’m living this glamorous life here with these men, and it’s so great.” And then they’d get the victim drunk and have a threesome. And then they’d make them live in the Romanian compound and not permit them to leave.
[00:41:32] And they silenced women and, and, and sort of prevented them from leaving by torching their reputations or threatening worse. From the article, “One of Tristan Tate’s top defenders described Tristan as behaving like a dictator and said that when she decided to leave, he attacked her verbally and hacked her social media accounts.
[00:41:51] One of his associates threatened to set fire to her car. The Tates’ messages show that they repeatedly ordered associates to punish women by hijacking their social media accounts and posting pornographic images of them to their followers. When another worker fled the operation, Tristan told Naomi John to log into her Instagram account and, quote, ‘burn it down.’
[00:42:10] Another woman, Liana Ventilla, who grew unhappy, was told by text that he had mafia connections who might try to find her and that he had the same blood chemistry as a serial killer. A few days later, after she wrote him that she was miserable, he had summoned her to his bedroom. There, Ventilla said he punched her in the face and rapped her, squeezing her head painfully between his hands.
[00:42:34] She said he threatened to get her pregnant and then lock her in a house so that she would definitely, quote, ‘definitely go crazy,’ end quote.” Which Yeah,
[00:42:44] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, this is not... B- also, YouTube, if you’re thinking of, like, censoring this or something, keep in mind, like, the algorithm it’s important that people know about this.
[00:42:54] Like, you are strictly facilitating violence against women if you silence this, because there are a lot of people who are unaware of genuinely how bad this guy is.
[00:43:06] Simone Collins: Yeah.
[00:43:07] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. And I don’t just think it’s him. I think it’s actually from, from remembering the manosphere days, there were two types of influencers.
[00:43:13] There was the type like, “Women are screwing us over.”
[00:43:16] Simone Collins: Hmm.
[00:43:16] Malcolm Collins: And then there was the type that was, “And here’s how we screw women over.” And-
[00:43:20] Simone Collins: Yeah, like, women y- women are basically dumb cows, and the only thing they’re useful for is, like, making me feel good and making money.
[00:43:30] Malcolm Collins: And that’s not gonna work civilizationally.
[00:43:31] Yeah. Right? Like, if you- It’s not. It’s not ... if you take that model and you try to build that into a civilizational ecosystem, you’re going to fail. Mm-hmm ... or you’re going to create something not dissimilar from modern-day Islamism. W- you know, the, the sort of ISIS culture, the culture of Gaza. And that just doesn’t produce flourishing civilizationally or in any other context, and it makes your people easy to stamp out.
[00:43:51] Hmm. And that’s why I don’t want that for my people, right? Like, even if I could get more pleasure myself, even if I could go out there and [00:44:00] do... I mean, something equivalent to what Tate’s... You know, the, the money you can make. What’s also funny is, like, in a way we sort of sell a similar product to Andrew Tate’s product in that you can use rfab.ai for any sort of a fantasy you want to use it for.
[00:44:16] Hmm. If you, if you wanna be in a violent fantasy, if you wanna be a w- whatever. But no one’s actually getting hurt, right? Like, it removes all of the negatives of his world.
[00:44:27] Simone Collins: Yeah, yeah. Like, I mean, it, there are people who get off on all sorts of things, and that’s not a reflection of your moral endorsements at all.
[00:44:40] What does become a reflection of your moral endorsements is what you actually do. So if you really need to exercise something, you do it in the least harm-causing way possible, right? And in- instead- Yep ... of going after actual women. Also, he paid off local police to suppress reports. This also from the article.
[00:44:58] Court records show that local police sat on at least two reports indicating that the Tates were coercing Romanian women into sex work. Andrew openly discussed bribing law enforcement officials in War Room chats and bragged on social media about his connections. His efforts were so successful that despite one new recruit from Miami literally getting the US Embassy to raid the Tates’ Romanian compound in which she was trapped, resulting in the women present being taken into custody in an investigation into human trafficking, Andrew and Tristan were quickly released after questioning.
[00:45:29] And what makes all of this worse is that he and his brother were actively working to bring it to scale. So this War Room, like, membership, super special program they had-
[00:45:39] Malcolm Collins: Yeah ...
[00:45:40] Simone Collins: cost between $3,000 and $8,000 a month to join ‘cause again, he just fleeces over anyone that will follow him and takes anything that he can from them, all the money he can.
[00:45:51] And- Yep ... and in his War Room, he teaches members how to recruit women into, his words, “sexual slavery”- His words His words
[00:46:01] Malcolm Collins: Well, because in, in, in, in an Islamic context, that’s what makes it moral That’s what makes it moral.
[00:46:05] Simone Collins: If it were- Absolutely, yeah. If it were, like, marriage, then no. Unless, unless, A,
[00:46:10] Malcolm Collins: an abusive rela- a trusting relationship.
[00:46:12] Girlfriends who you pimp out. No, sex slaves.
[00:46:14] Simone Collins: Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Yeah. And through... It’s... He does this through tutorials that, that Tate refers to as his PhD, AKA Pimping Hos Degree. Great. So, he uses his own victims as case studies in this too. Like, he’ll have videos of them. He’ll include, like, accounts on, like, texts between them, how he wore down, like...
[00:46:36] You know, many of them were like, “Look, I’m a Christian girl. I really don’t wanna do this.” And he’s like, “And here’s how I overcame that argument.” I’m reading from the article a- again. “Tate’s Pimping Hos Degree course was the core of the curriculum. ‘Some women are more susceptible to being molded,’ Tate told, told pupils.
[00:46:51] To gauge a woman’s malleability, members were taught to dismiss her harshly after sex, and then demand an active service, buying a coffee or chocolate, cooking a meal. If she complied, she was through to the next level.” Which is just great. He clearly enabled men to do horrible things too. Like, the, the, it’s documented. So again, from the article, “One star pupil was a Texan man who said that he was making six figures while his girlfriend streamed for 13-hour stretches. He posted a photograph of her bent over a stool in a grimy workspace next to a table set with what appeared to be lubricant wipes and sex toys.
[00:47:27] Quote, ‘Got her on Chatterbait and sleeping in the concrete floored garage with no AC, spiders, and roaches,’ he wrote. ‘Absolutely legendary work,’ Tristan responded.”
[00:47:39] Malcolm Collins: That’s aspirational for them ...
[00:47:42] Simone Collins: then, they, they made that happen. This woman, there’s a, there’s a woman somewhere surrounded by spiders and cockroaches being actively abused right now thanks to the Tates.
[00:47:53] Malcolm Collins: Well, I mean, I think that they should i- i- investigate through the War Room, right? Like, why not go through-
[00:47:57] Simone Collins: They really should. They should, they should go, yeah, they [00:48:00] should pull every membership. And in fact, I mean, some of the more prominent members actually have already been arrested. And including this man who I’m about to read about.
[00:48:07] So I’ll cont- I’ll continue. “The most zealous pimp was a meaty, shaven-headed Romanian named Vlad Obuzek, who ran a webcam studio in Bucharest.” J- jumping forward. “When another member asked O- Obuzek how he subdued recruits, he gave a recent example. Quote, ‘I took her keyboard and hit her in the head with it.
[00:48:29] She went in the room and worked seven hours without any break,’ he said, later adding that he had beaten every woman he’d been with. Some users were perturbed,” thank God, well, “by Obuzek’s stories. Quote, ‘That just sounds like abuse to me,’ one wrote.” The one person who was dumb enough to pay for this, but not dumb enough to fall for it, I guess.
[00:48:50] Malcolm Collins: Yeah. “But
[00:48:51] Simone Collins: the Tates elevated Obuzek. He got his own channel, The Revenge Room, where he taught, quote, ‘raw, uncensored methods of pimping and handling women,’ unquote.” “And his status grew. He dispensed lessons on handling local law enforcement. Quote, ‘I had multiple charges for beating people up, hitting them with bricks in the head, et cetera, and I just paid 500 to $1,000 and nothing happened,’ he said.
[00:49:16] ‘If you position yourself right, corruption suits you.’” Woo, this is just so great. Also, just people following his social media, right? Because this, the, the Tates- Yeah ... are, like, elevated level. Nick Fuentes is at that, like, lower level where he talks a big game, but I don’t believe he actually follows through in actually committing atrocities himself.
[00:49:35] But even just posting this stuff, like, to non-members, just the general misogynistic stuff that Tate posts, has appeared to have caused damage. I mean, there’s, this appears, it’s correlation, but likely causation. Again, from the article, “His influence is being felt around the world. Last year, a 17-year-old boy in New Jersey allegedly drove his car into two teenage girls, killing them both, after joking on a live stream about women getting ropped by Tate.
[00:50:03] In Britain, a man who had recently watched about 10 of Tate’s videos ropped his ex-girlfriend and murdered her, her mother, and her sister using a crossbow. British police have warned that Tate’s teachings are radicalizing young men in a terrifying manner.” And declared that violence against women is a national emergency.
[00:50:21] Reports of rapes and sexual ass hats in British schools, and some involving victims as young as five, have soared in the past five years, and education leaders describe violent misogyny spreading on an epidemic scale. Some c- concerns have been reported across North America and Asia. So speaking of all this kind of treatment toward women, let’s talk about the Taliban now.
[00:50:45] Malcolm Collins: Oh, by the way- So- ... before we get to that, I just had a thought. Oh, a
[00:50:48] Simone Collins: thought ... I
[00:50:48] Malcolm Collins: was applying the heuristic I came up with, was guys- Okay ... from the manosphere days, that core thing was looking like the most masculine man. Like the-
[00:50:55] Simone Collins: Oh, you’re gonna think about the guy who had that terrible, like, home video, who was screaming at his pregnant wife about the dogs or something?
[00:51:02] Okay.
[00:51:02] Malcolm Collins: Well, yeah, he, he definitely fits into one of those categories. But I think about, like, the wider new right, and there was two things I noted here. Mm. One is, is that the core enemy of the new right was one of those guys. Remember, Hasan was a manosphere influencer- Was
[00:51:19] Simone Collins: he? ... about being
[00:51:19] Malcolm Collins: extra masculine.
[00:51:21] Yeah, he has the video, the like, old enough to count, old enough to mount.
[00:51:24] Simone Collins: Oh, no.
[00:51:25] Malcolm Collins: And he... Yeah, he used to be a manosphere, like a man-ish influencer, like be the manliest man. Mm-hmm. And he looks like it, too. And then you go to, like, the actual heads of our community, and I just realized, like, of the, the males who are influential in our community-
[00:51:41] Simone Collins: Mm
[00:51:42] Malcolm Collins: I might be the most traditionally masculine. Consider you’ve got Rev Says Desu, certainly not a traditionally masculine output.
[00:51:50] Simone Collins: You’ve got- Well, that’s just ‘cause he’s a manifesting- No, I understand, but- ... as a vampire girl ...
[00:51:53] Malcolm Collins: you’ve got-
[00:51:54] Simone Collins: He doesn’t wanna look at a dude all day ...
[00:51:55] Malcolm Collins: you’ve got Nux, who’s not really...
[00:51:58] He’s, he’s got his own thing. You’ve [00:52:00] got Asmogold, who I don’t know, I think I, I probably look slightly more traditionally masculine than Asmogold. You’ve
[00:52:05] Simone Collins: got- You have shorter hair.
[00:52:06] Malcolm Collins: Yeah ...
[00:52:07] Simone Collins: Nux looks pretty, like buff in his suit, in that one- He looked b-
[00:52:11] Malcolm Collins: boyish- ...
[00:52:11] Simone Collins: interview ... I
[00:52:12] Malcolm Collins: would say.
[00:52:13] Simone Collins: I don’t, I don’t know what he looks like.
[00:52:14] Cluckish. I don’t know. I, I just know what his body looks like. But no, I’m just talking about avatar. Oh, yeah, no. Yeah. The, the avatar is boyish, but, like, in his actual, like, body interview that he did with someone, he looks like he, like, goes to the gym kind of person.
[00:52:28] Malcolm Collins: Yeah.
[00:52:28] Simone Collins: Yeah, which is good. I
[00:52:29] Malcolm Collins: mean- Which is good.
[00:52:30] More masculine ... obviously, like, raw egg nationalist is definitely more masculine. Oh,
[00:52:32] Simone Collins: yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:52:33] Malcolm Collins: And, But he’s
[00:52:33] Simone Collins: right. He has to be. He was in Tucker Carlson’s End of Men documentary. You know, it’s his job.
[00:52:40] Malcolm Collins: It’s his job. And V, V who now does FaceTubing, the Romanian V TV guy-
[00:52:43] Simone Collins: Oh, he does FaceTube now?
[00:52:44] Oh, cool ...
[00:52:46] Malcolm Collins: yeah, he looks exactly the way you’d expect.
[00:52:48] Simone Collins: Okay. Cool.
[00:52:50] Malcolm Collins: Just, like- I have to check ... standard Eastern European guy.
[00:52:53] Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that’s masculine. Look-
[00:52:55] Malcolm Collins: You got, you got- We’re not gonna have
[00:52:56] Simone Collins: a
[00:52:56] Malcolm Collins: masculinity con- ... Professor Dutton, I guess. I, I think I
[00:52:59] Simone Collins: have him listed. No, you look more masculine than him.
[00:53:00] Malcolm Collins: Yeah.
[00:53:01] Simone Collins: It’s, yeah.
[00:53:01] Malcolm Collins: But that’s just interesting that, that Hasan, like, the one person still in our wider sphere of cultural relevance, he’s the one guy who tried to be masculine for a minute. Oh, God, I
[00:53:09] Simone Collins: wish we had an accurate body count. You might have the highest body count.
[00:53:13] Malcolm Collins: Body count of what? Sex?
[00:53:16] Simone Collins: Yes.
[00:53:17] Malcolm Collins: Oh, obviously. There’s no- Yeah ... like, it, even among, like, Aela’s circle.
[00:53:23] Simone Collins: I know, I know, I know.
[00:53:25] Malcolm Collins: I, I mog people.
[00:53:26] Simone Collins: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:53:29] Malcolm Collins: I, I, I was at least the last I counted at a quarter of Aela’s count, which is astonishing given that I am a guy- Does she, does she know her count? ... and I stopped after college.
[00:53:39] Simone Collins: She knows her count.
[00:53:40] Of course she knows her count. Yeah, you did stop after. Well, a little after college. A little after college. You mean before, before your, your grad degree.
[00:53:48] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, before my grad degree.
[00:53:50] Simone Collins: Yeah. Anyway.
[00:53:52] Malcolm Collins: Okay, continue with the Taliban.
[00:53:53] Simone Collins: The Taliban. Right, so he caught on with them after he converted to Islam in late 2022, and then shortly after his December ‘22 arrest in Romania, Samir Khan, who’s a Tate supporter, hosted or participated in a Twitter Space involving people presenting as Afghan Taliban, where participants repeatedly said they were worried about Andrew Tate and asked if he was free yet, and stated that Westerners, quote, “need Andrew Tate because we are oppressed by feminists.”
[00:54:22] One named participant claimed affiliation with the Cultural Commissa- Commission of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan. And then accounts operating under names like Taliban Public Relations Department Commentary that is to say TalibanPRD_, and similar handles which link to official Islamic Emirate English site, al- like, the, their, their official site posted multiple statements of support.
[00:54:44] They demanded Andrew Tate’s immediate release,
[00:54:48] Malcolm Collins: claimed- The, the Taliban’s treating him like he’s, like, a, a captured Taliban member.
[00:54:52] Simone Collins: Yeah. They claimed the Taliban movement was the only entity exerting diplomatic pressure on Romania for the Tate’s freedom, and stated, quote, “The matrix will not defeat #AndrewTate.”
[00:55:04] They, they offered Tate brothers Afghan citizenship and, quote, “masculine passports”, which is great. ... Once released, framing this as a protection against, quote, “kidnapping by #MatrixAffiliatedNations”, end quote. They compared Afghanistan to Andrew Tate, “straight, rugged, and stiff to the point.” They likened Tate to Julian Assange as freedom-loving warriors, mocked figures like Boris Johnson as Matrix members, and said, quote, “The Emirates will battle tooth and nail to free them.”
[00:55:41] Just great. And, and after Andrew Tate publicly converted to Islam in October of 2022,
[00:55:47] Malcolm Collins: Wait, so this was all before he converted?
[00:55:50] Simone Collins: No, no, no, it was after. It was after
[00:55:51] Malcolm Collins: Okay.
[00:55:51] Simone Collins: So he converted in October, arrested in December, and then after all that, like in, in the intervening years between 2022 and now, he has [00:56:00] ultimately gotten a much more diversified and expanded audience, especially among young Muslim men, where his original audience largely stuck around.
[00:56:08] He actually didn’t lose that much ground, which is another reason why I’m having this episode. I’m like, “No, he’s not what you think he is.” I thought he was just a funny, bombastic man.
[00:56:16] Malcolm Collins: Well, so what I do know is of US s- school children, there was at one point- Uh-huh ... when he ranked number one- Oh,
[00:56:22] Simone Collins: yeah. It’s like the top, like among high
[00:56:24] Malcolm Collins: schoolers and stuff
[00:56:24] Today a- among US school children, it’s dropped by over 50% in terms
[00:56:28] Simone Collins: of- Well, I hope that, what, who’s like the, the main guy influencer?
[00:56:32] Malcolm Collins: Clavicular.
[00:56:34] Simone Collins: Clavic- oh, I’ll take it. No, I’ll take, like Clavicular’s an asexual autistic, you know? Like, that’s my, that’s my people. I’m, I’m ready for that. Like, I’ll take it.
[00:56:45] He’s not hurting anyone aside from himself, man. He’s hammering his own face, you know?
[00:56:50] Malcolm Collins: That’s- Yeah, he doesn’t appear to be a, a malicious person from what I can see.
[00:56:54] Simone Collins: No. In fact, the- He honestly, yeah, it’s, he’s the dog that caught the car ... the number one malicious- I, I kind of wish people would just leave him alone, you
[00:57:00] Malcolm Collins: know?
[00:57:00] He- He does, he does do one malicious thing, which is- What? ... probably for the good and really funny. I, I don’t know if you’ve seen these videos, ‘cause it’s like a whole series. It’s the type of Clavicular video I see the most- Okay ... is he’ll find out if a girl who’s trying to sleep with him has a boyfriend, and then call to tell the boyfriend while she’s there like panicking.
[00:57:16] Simone Collins: That’s cute. What? That’s wholesome.
[00:57:18] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, like trying to catch girls out on their BS, like.
[00:57:21] Simone Collins: That’s super wholesome. Aw.
[00:57:23] Young lady. Aw. I’m like, come on This is- Doesn’t that make you love him? But who knows, he might betray me like Andrew Tate. ‘Cause look, even the, even the victims of Andrew Tate, like, have been explicit in, in their interviews, like he’s funny.
[00:57:38] Like he and Tristan are funny. Like they have a good sense of humor, and they’re smart, and that’s the big problem, is I, again, we make this assumption that if someone’s smart and they have a good sense of humor, they couldn’t possibly be a monster. Like they couldn’t possibly be subhuman- Mm ... and have no moral judgment and do terrible things.
[00:57:53] Because smart, funny people can’t be bad. And I still struggle with this. I’m like, how can you... How does, how does this work? I, it’s, But anyway so he had explosive growth in mid-2022- Mm-hmm ... especially on TikTok through his clips. And then let’s see. If we just look at a timeline. So when he was reinstated on X in 2022 in November, he had 38,000 followers.
[00:58:19] Two days later, a million. Late December 2022, 4.1 to 4.5 million. December 2023, a year later, 8.5 million. 2024, 9.9 million. ‘25, ‘26, now we’re about like 10.85 million. So he’s, no, he’s definitely not falling off. It’s just I think he’s growing, especially among a, a Muslim audience.
[00:58:43] Malcolm Collins: Hm. And- He’s falling off among like the United States like right wing audience, but he’s growing among a Muslim audience.
[00:58:49] Simone Collins: Yes. And, and- I,
[00:58:49] Malcolm Collins: I
[00:58:49] Simone Collins: think
[00:58:49] Malcolm Collins: that’s fair to say ... the Muslim audience allows him to negatively impact many more people because, you know, he’s a, a more central influencer there. And, and I think that the, the this is a positive thing that that happened for our culture, right? That like essentially we went through this cultural evolution where it was like, yeah, women have really fucked up society, but like the goal is to fix society, not to punish women.
[00:59:14] Simone Collins: Yeah, we want everyone to be okay- And we’re cucking the women ... and happy. We, we... This isn’t, And to be clear, like there are women who are just as egregious as, as Andrew Tate, you know, who, who refuse to believe that that one mother who killed her own children did it. They’re like, “Even if she did do it, she didn’t do it.
[00:59:31] It was her husband.” Like they, they’re just so anti-man that they won’t even- allow a conversation about
[00:59:39] Malcolm Collins: a psychotic young woman I, I find the other side of that conversation really ugly as well. The guys who are like It’s disgusting. She did it voluntarily, or, like, she wasn’t... It seems very obvious to me she was undergoing psychosis and, and, and obviously has undergone...
[00:59:50] People are like, “Oh, she was able to plan it.” You can plan when you’re in a psychotic state. Like- You
[00:59:54] Simone Collins: can ...
[00:59:55] Malcolm Collins: it’s about extreme delusional paranoia, but you can plan. You can even do, like, people try to do [01:00:00] assassinations in those states. Like Andrew Hinckley, remember? Like, tried to assassinate Reagan. Like, the, you can, you can do large multi-step processes.
[01:00:09] But the regret that she will live with for the rest of her life is, and the memories she’s going to live with in her head-
[01:00:16] Simone Collins: No, I would rather be dead. I would so rather be dead. I- I
[01:00:19] Malcolm Collins: would rather be dead Yeah I would rather be dead than her, than, than having to live the rest of my life, my old age, everything, with those m- memories.
[01:00:28] Simone Collins: But this is, this is to say that I’m not saying that, like, Andrew Tate and, and other really bad actors in the, like, manosphere s- space are the only ones, and that there are women who are also doing egregiously, horrendously horrible, unspeakable things. But all of those people are bad actors who need to be identified and removed from society.
[01:00:49] They, they are not, you know... We’re equal opportunity here. This is not like this class of person is evil. It’s like, look, no, you need to find your bad actors who are outliers and get rid of them. Anyway, he was so good at fleecing people over because people assumed that Andrew Tate was, was human that they, they just assumed the same things he did.
[01:01:07] And I, I don’t blame The people who came to his side, but let’s, let’s go over who did, right? ‘Cause I mean, I, I would’ve- Yeah ... thought for him until recently ‘cause I just thought he was a bombast. After Andrew, after Andrew Tate- Well,
[01:01:20] Malcolm Collins: and we’ve seen the other side falsely accuse people of so many things, you know?
[01:01:24] So-
[01:01:24] Simone Collins: Yes. Yeah, that’s the thing ...
[01:01:25] Malcolm Collins: we generally just don’t take it seriously.
[01:01:27] Simone Collins: Yeah, we know. Like, we know what it’s like to have media cover you and influencers cover you and just say outright lies. Then you’re like, “Oh, God.” The
[01:01:35] Malcolm Collins: Laura Southern one is the one that really cinches it for me because I know- Yeah
[01:01:37] she’s not lying. Yeah. There is, like, zero advantage. ‘Cause it, it
[01:01:39] Simone Collins: destroys her, like, whole thing to, to, to come out about it. Yeah, like that, that’s what really cinched it for me, too. I’m like... But also, like, that he would use this dynamic of the right community, the right-wing community of like, look, we’re all here to help each other, to not only, like, pitch to her, here’s how let’s, we fleece over people who care about us, but also then to personally assault her.
[01:02:01] But after Andrew Tate was deplatformed, he signed an agreement with Rumble, which he, for which he received $6 million per year in exchange for just one weekly quota of sh- five short videos and a 30-minute live stream.
[01:02:13] Malcolm Collins: That’s not good for Rumble. That’s, that makes Rumble look really bad.
[01:02:17] Simone Collins: Yeah. According to Blake, quote, “His presence inspired a 45% increase in active users, sending Rumble to first place on the Apple and Google Charts.”
[01:02:26] A few months later, Elon Musk bought Twitter and reinstated Tate’s account. So Musk also gave him a chance. Quote, “When Tate was arrested on human trafficking charges, his allies defended him. Donald Trump Jr. called the case absolute insanity, and Musk suggested that the authorities were targeting, targeting the Tates while ignoring, quote, ‘actual sex trafficking.’
[01:02:47] Tucker Carlson, who had just released a documentary called The End of Men, devoted hours of airtime to proclaiming Tate’s innocence. So did right-wing podcaster Candace Owens. The activist Charlie Kirk praised him on stage. Quote, ‘What he says is so powerful,’ Kirk said. ‘Our
[01:03:04] Malcolm Collins: society is configured- But back then we didn’t know.
[01:03:05] Like-
[01:03:05] Simone Collins: No, and that’s the thing is I, I’m, this is how good Andrew Tate was, and I, we were, we would’ve said exactly the same stuff. Like, look, he’s such a- Yeah, we
[01:03:11] Malcolm Collins: did. In our early videos on Andrew Tate, we were much more, like, trying to understand his perspective, trying to understand his fans’ perspective.
[01:03:17] Simone Collins: And here’s what really cinches it for me.
[01:03:19] Even Heidi Blake, the author of this article, who wrote all this stuff, went through even more, you know, like, all these court records that will never see the light of day, that only she saw, right? Despite all of this- She, she writes this, “Despite his mixed heritage, he promoted the great replacement theory declaring, quote, ‘The West is collapsing because it’s full of disgusting traitors, white people who beg to be erased.’”
[01:03:45] And sh- he’s not acting like disappearing white people is bad. He’s saying they’re disgusting traitors, and she’s totally misreading that, thinking that he’s speaking as someone who is with people who are afraid of that, which is a dumb idea anyway. [01:04:00] But I, I genuinely believe that he just thinks everyone is a stupid idiot who deserves- Yes
[01:04:05] to be replaced, who deserves to be overtaken. Well,
[01:04:07] Malcolm Collins: no. He’s, I mean, he’s fully sided with the Islamist agenda, right?
[01:04:10] Simone Collins: I know. Like, that’s- No, yeah. He’s, he’s, he’s probably, yeah. I m- i, I... So it’s funny.
[01:04:15] Malcolm Collins: That’s his goal, right? Yeah. Like, I, I think the, the people aren’t, like, listening through to the other side, looking who his allies are now.
[01:04:25] Th- y- you gotta keep in mind, you know, in, in Afghanistan, there’s conservatives as well. Like, ISIS is a conservative organization, right? You know? They-
[01:04:34] Yeah ...
[01:04:35] there are the Iranian government is a conservative government. Being a conservative of a culture that is fundamentally opposed to my culture, and historically wants to eradicate my culture, and is, in the moment, attempting to eradicate my culture, that’s more opposite to me than the progressives are because the progressives won’t exist in 100 or 200 years.
[01:05:00] Octavian Collins: Mm-hmm.
[01:05:01] Malcolm Collins: The ideologies that Tate is metastasizing within Muslim communities right now, where those communities don’t fall apart, in many places they are, those are going to be the cultural milieu that the next wave of immigrants is gonna have. That-
[01:05:15] Simone Collins: And what’s also so sad, because Islam can go in many directions, and Islam doesn’t have to be a misogynistic, horrible uncivilized religion.
[01:05:23] It doesn’t. Like, there, there are ways to do Islam that are- But the problem is- ... beautiful and pious and disciplined ...
[01:05:29] Malcolm Collins: is, its texts allow it, and the Christian texts don’t.
[01:05:34] Simone Collins: That’s true. That is true, and that, that’s what makes Islam inherently too delicate for us to feel like we can condone or support or be comfortable with.
[01:05:41] What I am saying, though, is that with the right influencers at play, there is definitely a future timeline in which Islam is fine. Yeah. And Islam does produce human flourishing. We are not seeing that timeline, and Andrew Tate is playing a core role in moving the timeline in the worst possible direction for Islam as a religion and its ability to produce human flourishing.
[01:06:04] He is producing the complete opposite. He is turning women into slaves and men into worse than animals, and I think that’s disgusting.
[01:06:12] Malcolm Collins: And- Well, and I think that this is why having the concept of a pre-Adamite is useful.
[01:06:16] Simone Collins: Yeah.
[01:06:16] Malcolm Collins: Like- Yeah ... as soon as we developed that, it’s really changed the way I see other people in terms of, like, do I really need to have compassion for everyone?
[01:06:23] Mm-hmm. And once you realize that, oh, well, that’s not necessarily biblical, and then I was like, oh, okay, okay Now I can understand how I’m supposed to relate to somebody like Andrew Tate
[01:06:33] Simone Collins: Yeah, it’s sad. It’s sad. New- news headline: not everyone who’s funny and smart is human.
[01:06:41] Malcolm Collins: And w- our community should have some rules or levels of restrictions around the people who we give our trust to.
[01:06:51] Simone Collins: Yeah. Or, you know, trust but verify. Yeah. And, Anyway ... yeah. This was-
[01:06:56] Malcolm Collins: Well, you can’t always verify. You can’t always believe every-
[01:06:59] Simone Collins: Yeah. Well, then don’t fly to Romania to meet with a
[01:07:02] Malcolm Collins: man- Well, Simone, thi- this is why I was very clear. We don’t make the thing anybody who’s accused of grape. Yeah. Anyone who’s accused of a sexual impropriety.
[01:07:10] Yeah. Anyone... We make it what they’re selling to you. Mm. I am the manniest man who ever manned.
[01:07:15] Simone Collins: Oh, yeah. That’s a much better- If that’s
[01:07:16] Malcolm Collins: what they’re selling to you-
[01:07:17] Simone Collins: Yeah ...
[01:07:18] Malcolm Collins: then you, you don’t need to know anything else. You can just know you can’t trust them.
[01:07:23] Simone Collins: That’s
[01:07:23] Malcolm Collins: quite fair. Because that’s a stupid value set.
[01:07:25] That isn’t even a value set. That’s not even an aspiration to have- Mm-hmm ... a value set. It’s
[01:07:29] Simone Collins: an identity. Yeah, yeah.
[01:07:30] Malcolm Collins: That’s not an aspiration to have a morality. That’s the manosphere version of being trans
[01:07:36] Simone Collins: No, I mean it, it like literally is. And, and we have the same we stand in the same level of opposition to gender affirming care that stays within lanes.
[01:07:46] Like, we’re just as against a natal male using dangerous levels of steroids to look extra beefy, and for a natal female to drop tens of thousands of dollars on plastic surgery as we are for a trans [01:08:00] person to invest in gender reassignment care or gender affirming care. It’s, and, and the- Like it’s all exactly the same stuff.
[01:08:05] The reason- And it’s all living for an identity ...
[01:08:07] Malcolm Collins: sorry, people should understand. It’s, it, it’s turning your life’s purpose into a search for affirmation of an identity- Mm-hmm ... which should not matter. Mm. There is no way you are a moral person if your life’s purpose is the affirmation of a specific identity rather than some goal you have for humanity or some religious framework.
[01:08:29] Simone Collins: Especially because your satisfaction is requiring, it, it, it’s dependent on the revocation of others’ consent. Because in order for you to be happy, you need to, against the will of other people, make them think a certain thing about you, which you can’t. You certainly can’t. And so at least in moral
[01:08:45] Malcolm Collins: life.
[01:08:45] Well, you, you can to an extent, but we should le- end this here.
[01:08:49] Simone Collins: Yes.
[01:08:49] Malcolm Collins: Great to chat with you. Thanks for bringing this up, Simone.
[01:08:52] Simone Collins: Goodbye, sir.
[01:08:55] Malcolm Collins: Dead mice
[01:08:56] Simone Collins: Oh my gosh. Sorry. Right. Yeah, I’ll come through with, with the bag and get the dead mice now. First it’s the hornets, then it’s the mice. But that is, Look, it’s the natural world is a glorious and beautiful thing, okay? So let it be.
[01:09:12] Malcolm Collins: And it’s in our house. That’s when it’s not.
[01:09:17] Simone Collins: Yeah, well, look, it’s not a- we’re not- look, we have a lot of people listen to this podcast and live in Australia, where you have to worry about, like, scorpions in your shoes, and all the sk- snakes are miraculously dangerously venomous.
[01:09:31] And...
[01:09:31] Malcolm Collins: I have to... Th- th- yeah, that’d be terrifying to know my kids could just die from playing in our yard. Mm ... I’ve gotta tell our fans about how perceptive my wife is, ‘cause th- this, I was reminded of this when listening to an AMV with this song.
[01:09:48] Simone Collins: What?
[01:09:49] Malcolm Collins: She used to think the song that goes, “Like the ceiling can’t hold us” went, “Like we’re ceiling fan holders.”
[01:09:58] Simone Collins: That’s what it sounds like. That’s what it sound-
[01:10:02] Malcolm Collins: Like- Like
[01:10:03] Simone Collins: we’re ceiling fan holders ... we’re
[01:10:03] Malcolm Collins: ceiling fan holders. A whole bunch of gangsters be like, “Like we’re ceiling fan holders.”
[01:10:08] Simone Collins: I can’t hear anything else. I don’t know how you can hear anything else. I mean, and look, I think I’m not alone in hearing these things.
[01:10:17] Like that Taylor Swift song where she talks about being Starbucks lovers. She is not saying star-crossed lovers. She is saying Starbucks lovers, and I don’t know how much money she was paid by Starbucks to say that, but something’s going
[01:10:30] Malcolm Collins: on. And then just tell everyone with a straight face that she didn’t just sing Starbucks lovers.
[01:10:36] Simone Collins: This is, this is the world we live in now. They just lie to your face. They just lie straight to your face. It’s disgusting.
[01:10:44] Malcolm Collins: And, and so you think he was promoted by big ceiling fan holder? That he got, he got a bribe- The ceiling fan industry ... from the ceiling fan holder lobby. Yeah, just their one big thing.
[01:10:53] They spend it all on one song. Big ce-
[01:10:55] Simone Collins: yeah. Yeah, man. Yeah.
[01:10:57] Malcolm Collins: And then they just lie to us that we, we did not just say ceiling fan holders.
[01:11:00] Simone Collins: Yeah. They’re like, “No. No. It’s like the ceiling can’t hold...” Well, look, the ceiling was never holding anyone. It never made any sense from the beginning, okay? Look, it, the ceiling can’t hold us- Do you mean the floor?
[01:11:18] Do you mean your hammock? Do you mean... Like, no. I don’t know. It’s not even like, what holds you? A harness? Mm-hmm. A harness? I don’t know. The- look, music doesn’t- Well,
[01:11:30] Malcolm Collins: they’re going up, and that’s why the ceiling is posing up a problem in terms of their-
[01:11:35] Simone Collins: Going up. How? ...
[01:11:36] Malcolm Collins: relative positions.
[01:11:38] Simone Collins: The jumping?
[01:11:39] Malcolm Collins: Yeah, I guess jumping into the ceiling.
[01:11:42] Like, it’s-
[01:11:42] Simone Collins: So they’re, they’re going to- ... idiots ... they’re going to cause the ceiling to crash down upon them by jumping super gracefully. Now I’m imagining a bunch of people just
[01:11:49] Malcolm Collins: jumping and hitting their head on the ceiling while singing.
[01:11:52] Simone Collins: Or maybe they’re standing in the apartment above them, trying to crash through their floor.
[01:11:58] Like, their ceiling can’t [01:12:00] hold them.
[01:12:00] Malcolm Collins: The one instance in which like, the ceiling can’t hold us has a lot of weight is idiots who try to put up, like, sex chairs. You know, like those swinging, like, sex things on their ceilings with not on load-bearing beams.
[01:12:14] Simone Collins: How does that work?
[01:12:17] Malcolm Collins: Well, the one person- What’s a-
[01:12:18] hangs suspended, and then the other person has sex with them because it’s easier to move their body around
[01:12:24] Simone Collins: Like the way that that cow or goat is held in the Jurassic Park movie?
[01:12:29] Malcolm Collins: Yes, like that. Oh,
[01:12:31] Simone Collins: God. Like that, seriously? That’s how
[01:12:34] Malcolm Collins: it works? Yes, like that, and then people put these in their houses, but they don’t put them in the load-bearing-
[01:12:39] Simone Collins: So they’re Jurassic Park goating themselves? This is a thing? This is Jurassic
[01:12:42] Malcolm Collins: Park goat sex? That’s exactly a thing. They’re Jurassic Park goating themselves.
[01:12:47] Simone Collins: I didn’t know this was a thing.
[01:12:48] I know that, I know that there’s a lot of suspending of things from ceilings for, like, very spendy parents whose children have sensory issues. So, like, they have all these, like, thing, like, hammocky things, and spinny things, and, like, fabric-based hangers. And I bet people walk into the kids’ playrooms and they just think that they’re sex dungeons.
[01:13:09] They, they must think that. I didn’t know this was a thing.
[01:13:12] Malcolm Collins: That’s what I would think if ever I saw, like, a, a hook on somebody’s ceiling.
[01:13:16] Simone Collins: No, that’s what, that’s what people thought when they walked into the living room of my childhood house, and they saw the-
[01:13:21] Malcolm Collins: Because it looked like a sex dungeon, Simone
[01:13:22] Simone Collins: they saw the Pilates Cadillac table and the Reformer. It doesn’t help that they call it the Reformer. It’s, it sounds BDSM. Let me reform you. You need to get reformed. It
[01:13:33] Malcolm Collins: may be a little BDSM, Simone.
[01:13:36] Simone Collins: I don’t think so. Joseph Pilates developed that kind of thing. Like, the reformer is kind of based off systems that he built on hospital beds- Mm
[01:13:44] for, for people recovering from the war, where you couldn’t exercise, you know, the leg that you were, that was blown off. And so he would put strings on their hospital bed so they could, like, keep their arms toned and, like, rebuild core strength even though they were bedridden. So, no. And like, actually for real, for once this, this it’s not pervy, and yet it looks so freaking bad.
[01:14:08] Oh, God. Not that, like, my family got to be cr- precluded from any of that, ‘cause then you walk immediately to, like, the bookshelves and then you see what’s sitting there, which was not great. As you discovered the hard way, which is why you never walk into your girlfriend’s house and try to pick up a book to start a conversation.
[01:14:25] I know, see, your, your parents had only, like, performative smart books in their houses, ‘cause they had show homes. You know, it was all like- Yeah ... you could pick it off and you’d be like, “Ah, yes. It’s Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. What, what let, let us discuss stoicism.” And you
[01:14:38] Malcolm Collins: look at a
[01:14:39] Simone Collins: book off my family’s shelf- No, they had a few artsy, like-
[01:14:40] Malcolm Collins: and it’s like- ... photography pervy books that looked sort of bondagey ...
[01:14:45] Simone Collins: yeah, and then there was just the really explicit, like-
[01:14:49] Malcolm Collins: And your house is- ... mirrors, cabinets ... just like a hentai, like- Yeah ... just like a hentai manga. Like,
[01:14:52] Simone Collins: let’s go straight to the, straight to the slop. Yeah. It was like that mixed with, like, my mom’s college books on, like, Ebonics and feminism.
[01:15:01] It was a very strange house, a strange house. Anyway, huh. Yeah. Shall we get into it? Wait, wait. Before we
[01:15:07] Malcolm Collins: get started, I’ll take a pill- Oh ... so I can get this-
[01:15:11] Simone Collins: You need to- ... handled ... yeah. Well, let’s... I actually, so, Examine, you know, the, the, the company that gives reviews of, like, supplements and does sort of syste- systematic reviews of health information and stuff in their latest newsletter, they talk about pill size being one of the major hazards of, of supplements.
[01:15:28] And do... You’re not trying my method. No, you’re not even- I had,
[01:15:32] Malcolm Collins: I didn’t have any in my mouth. I was just tasting if it was bad.
[01:15:35] Simone Collins: Oh, okay. So put it in your mouth, and then let it sit right there at the top of your throat. I found a version
[01:15:41] Malcolm Collins: of your method that is tolerable to me.
[01:15:43] Simone Collins: Okay, but it helped?
[01:15:44] Malcolm Collins: It did help, yes
[01:15:46] Simone Collins: Yeah, all right
[01:15:47] Malcolm Collins: Explain it for the fans, for bad tasting pills
[01:15:49] Simone Collins: Right, yeah.
[01:15:49] So if you’re taking a bad tasting pill, you take a swig of whatever it is, don’t swallow it, the liquid that you’re gonna use. Then you tilt your head back with it sitting, like, right [01:16:00] over your throat and then you drop the pill into the pool sitting over the funnel of your throat, open up your throat and let it all just flush through, and the pill never sits on your tongue, the liquid never sits in your mouth, so that incredibly bitter pill does not...
[01:16:16] See, Malcolm, you’re just doing it wr- you just let it sit on your tongue. He just lets it sit on his tongue. That, that is w- how not to do it, ladies and gentlemen. That is how it’s... Look at him. Look, he’s suffering ‘cause he didn’t use the Symone method. That’s your, that’s your
[01:16:29] Malcolm Collins: problem. Okay, what I do is now after doing it, what I learned the key is is to make sure it breaks from the tongue.
[01:16:35] So, I like, make my tongue concave to make sure it’s, it’s actually suspended in the s- solution.
[01:16:41] Simone Collins: Amateur. No, you don’t ever let it touch your tongue. Anyway, the big liability being that, like, actually pill size is a really big issue for a lot of pill takers because they have trouble swallowing pills.
[01:16:53] And oh my God, I wonder if there’s a correlation between women who can deep throat and, like, pill swallowing problems ‘cause I got
[01:16:59] Malcolm Collins: that- Yeah, that’s what I was wondering
[01:17:00] Simone Collins: No one who deep throats will ever say that they have a problem swallowing pills, and, like, everyone’s just like, “Oh, I could never. I could never.
[01:17:07] I, I could never give head.” Like, they will, they will just choke on their pills. And he showed this really gnarly, horrible image of someone mid-surgery pulling a calcium pill. I know exactly the type of calcium pill ‘cause I take them every freaking day. Taking it from a dislodged, like, it, it’s, it’s stuck in an abscess within someone’s throat.
[01:17:24] Just disgusting. I love, I love watching his
[01:17:28] Malcolm Collins: Why do you do that? ‘
[01:17:31] Simone Collins: Cause it’s, Why do I... Oh, I don’t just take the large calcium pills. I throw all the large pills in my mouth at the same time, and then I just swallow because- I sh- I shouldn’t have made that earlier. Let’s change the subject and start the episode.
[01:17:45] You ready?
[01:17:45] Malcolm Collins: I’m ready.
[01:17:46] Simone Collins: Okay. All right. I’m gonna show your pajama pants in this episode. Make sure you’re close to the mic. You can... We need to buy that mic stand for you.
[01:17:53] Malcolm Collins: I wear my p- pajama pants more because they’re way cooler than wearing jeans. Like, like, chillier and it’s so hot.
[01:18:02] Simone Collins: It’s so hot.
[01:18:03] Yeah, and we’ve had our air conditioning blasting all day. I need to figure out what’s turning it off at night, ‘cause I, I have it on, but I think our smart system’s like, “Oh, yes, let me help you save energy,” and then we, we sweat to death. We get the sweating sickness.
[01:18:14] Malcolm Collins: I wake up in the middle of the night ‘cause I’m overheated.
[01:18:17] Simone Collins: Yeah. It’s not great. Hey, that woke you up, though. Yeah. So maybe I shouldn’t try to fix it. Maybe. Maybe this is the key.
[01:18:24] Malcolm Collins: All right. Come on.
[01:18:25] Simone Collins: Okay.
[01:18:26] Okay, I’m sorry. I had to like Had to burp. Great. Okay.
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