Hot Seat Coaching: Refining Andrew’s Gothic Vampire Chapter

Jennie Nash hosts a hot seat coaching episode with #amwriting producer Andrew Perrella, who shares a 5,000-word draft of his Gothic vampire novel to be offered to paid subscribers. Jennie praises the draft as unusually strong and “authoritative,” then coaches Andrew on higher-level editorial concerns: pacing, density of information before the action, and adding more interiority so readers understand Abrianna’s reactions and risk-taking, especially her choice to follow a vampire into an alley.

They discuss the funeral setting, the presence of major characters (including an executor and Seward), and the theme that multiple people are watching Abrianna while the reader lacks key knowledge (including that the vampire is her mother). Jennie recommends using and updating the blueprint as a living “as-is” outline to track reveals, and they set a four-week deadline for Andrew to deliver 50 pages plus the blueprint.

Andrew has graciously decided to share his chapter with paid subscribers of our podcast. To find it, scroll all the way down on Substack below the transcript!

Hot Seat Coaching: Building a Killer Twist: Going Deeper Inside a Gothic Mystery Blueprint

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May 1

Andrew returns with his latest blueprint for a gothic mystery, and the coaching quickly zeroes in on what will make it work: a clear, compelling villain and twists that truly land. With help from thriller coach and Thrillerfest executive director Samantha Skal, the discussion unpacks the hidden layer of the story—what the villain is actually doing—and h…

Hot Seat Coaching: From Concept to Page: The Journey of a Thriller with Andrew Parrella

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Jun 5

Jennie Nash returns to a #amwriting hot seat with novelist Andrew Parrella. Building on prior guidance from ThrillerFest’s Samantha Skal, they refine Andrew’s thriller outline—especially antagonist Seward’s motivation, escalating twists, and clue/red-herring sophistication—while acknowledging outline fatigue and treating it as a living document updated …

Jennie: [00:00:00] Hi, I’m Jennie Nash, and you’re listening to the #

amwriting podcast, the place where we help writers of all kinds play big in your writing life, love the process, and stick with it long enough to finish what matters most. This is a hot seat coaching episode, where we work through a real writing challenge in real time, and today we’re back with Andrew Perrella, the #amwriting podcast producer who’s stepped out from behind the mic to work on his novel.

And this last chunk of time, Andrew’s been working on his returning from the blueprint and outlining and all the decisions to actually writing, and he was sneaking that in before, which I love, because of course. And this was- ... the first time I saw the actual writing, that I saw the first chapter. Um, so before I say anything, welcome Andrew.

Andrew: Thank you very much, Jennie. It’s great to be here. [00:01:00] Really excited to, uh, to dig into, uh, your, your feedback.

Well, the thing that I’m gonna say is I was so blown away by this writing. It was, it was I, I know you’re not gonna believe this, Andrew, but like as a book coach, I never ever read a piece of writing and just think, “Well, this is great.”

Like, I always, just the way my brain is tuned, I’m always finding something. And it’s very rare that I have a reaction that is just like, wow, this is just really great, and I had that reaction to this. It felt so ... Like, the word that most encapsulates it for me is authoritative. It felt like you own this story.

You’re, you know what it is. You know what you’re doing. It was, it was just ... I was just smiling when I was reading it ‘cause it was like, dang, is this, [00:02:00] is this the power of the blueprint or is Andrew just super talented? I don’t ... I think it’s obviously the latter, but, um, the- That’s

Andrew: what ... I w- I would, I would contr- give a lot of the credit to the former.

I think the blueprint really prepared me very well to like when it t- when it came down to sit down and start writing that chapter. And so I, I knew, I knew so much more about my characters jumping in and what I needed them, what I needed them to communicate to each other and to the reader.

Okay. And I’m super excited that Andrew has agreed to share this draft of the chapter.

We’re gonna share it with paid subscribers as a bonus. It’s very generous of you, Andrew. You’re just putting yourself out there while you’re writing this thing, both on the podcast and now sharing this writing, and it’s so helpful for people who are in it themselves and learning, and so just huge thanks to you for that.

Um- Of course ... [00:03:00] so you can, you can read along if you’re a paid subscriber. Totally worth it to join to see this chapter. But, um- And before I rave about particulars and then, like I had to really look for things that we could talk about to work on But I did find a few. I just want to hear what was your experience in writing it?

Did you, do you love it? Do you have doubts? Like, where do you sit with all of this?

Andrew: Um, I am still very fired up about, about this story, about this book, and I’ve been working on, uh, this is ac- actually, as I mentioned to you, this is chapter two that I shared with you. I have been working on chapter one and

chapter three.

I think I didn’t know that. So, so,

Andrew: so- Oh, I’m s- Yeah, so chapter

one- I have to recalibrate. Okay.

Andrew: Well, chapter two is where we meet our protagonist. We don’t meet our protagonist in chapter one. I imagine chapter one being kind of a smaller one where we, where we have the first murder, where we have... where we meet the first body, as it were.[00:04:00]

And so chapter two is where we meet, where we meet our protagonist, where we meet Abrianna. That’s, that’s how I’ve, how, how I’ve kind of s- scheduled in my brain at the moment. And whether that works or not, we’ll see and, and happy to talk more about that as we get there. But yeah, I’m still really, really excited about the project.

You know, this is a first draft and, like, I feel like there’s still a lot of clunky, rough edges that, that, that need to be refined, but I think because I had the bul- blueprint, I knew like, okay, these are the things that I know I need to include in the, in the chapter. And so there were all of these bullets.

And so- I think that, that obviously was really helpful to, to help me think through what needs to be included. I feel like some, like a lot of my segues need some work. I think there’s, there’s, uh, when I talk about rough edges, I feel like there, there are things that I just kind of like Lego blocked into place [00:05:00] because that’s, that’s where I, what I know needs to happen next.

But I need to, I need to bring a little bit more craft to it, um, than I have at this point. So yeah, I know there’s a lot of work to be done, but I’m, I’m really excited about, about the state it is in now.

That’s amazing. Well- Yeah ... and, and just to be clear, when I say, you know, that I was blown away and I couldn’t find anything, y- you know, I was using my lens of this is a first draft.

Right. And, and the- Right ... there’s a tool that I teach the book coaches that I train, which is called the hierarchy of editorial concerns, and it’s a pyramid like Maslow’s hierarchy.

Jennie: Yeah, yeah.

And the, the bottom are the fundamental story elements that we’ve been working out on the blueprint, and as you move up the pyramid, it’s more and more nuanced until the top of the pyramid is literally grammar and word choice.

And so the things that you’re talking about [00:06:00] that need fixing are high up on the pyramid. That was the thing that I- ... I was like, usually when I encounter any piece of writing, it’s, we’re at the bottom of the pyramid, the bottom, you know, couple, two or three levels, and you’re, you’re way up there. So the fact that you’re even thinking about craft and, and segue, and in my mind, some of the, there’s a, a couple things to talk about around what I would call pacing and then also interiority, you know, getting into the protagonist’s head a little bit more, uh, what she’s thinking and, and feeling.

But those are high up editorial concerns, and that’s, that’s what’s so exciting is that, you know, you’ve got those fundamentals down so that you can think about those type of things. So yay you. Um- Thank you.

Andrew: Thank you

So I have to rejig, uh, my brain [00:07:00] here. That was my bad that I was thinking this was the opening chapter.

Uh, and I, I s- I hear what you’re saying now, so I’m, I’m recalibrating a little bit because one of my comments was- There’s a lot of information in here. It’s dense. And there’s also some big action. Uh, so the scene that Andrew wrote is, um, a funeral. And, and it’s, um, the, uh, you know, this major character that our protagonist, that everybody’s circling around in, in the book, this Van Helsing, uh, character, and, uh, she sneaks away from her family to go.

And the- so that’s, that’s kind of what, what we’ve got going on. So there’s lots of players are at the funeral who are going to be, um, you [00:08:00] know, big characters in the story. Uh, w- she doesn’t know it, but the, the bad guy’s there. She doesn’t know it, but her mother’s there. Um, so there’s a lot that the protagonist doesn’t know.

There’s a lot that the reader doesn’t know. There’s a lot going on, and, and I had a little bit of a sense ... It’s not like there’s info dumps. That, that is not what I’m talking about at all. It’s just that there’s, there’s a lot. It’s dense. And so my question ... Oh, for the listener, there’s also big action, and it’s very dramatic and exciting, where, you know, our protagonist is a young woman.

She’s alone in London, and she makes a decision to follow a, a vampire into a dark alley and, uh, it’s very tense. It’s [00:09:00] very, um, moody. It’s very dramatic. The reader’s doing that thing you want the reader to do, which is like, “Don’t go!” You know? And, and then what the reader is worried is going to happen, in fact, doesn’t happen.

Something else happens. So there’s all kinds of exciting action and drama and tension. Um, and so when I talk about pacing, my- You know, when I read it the first time, I was like, “Wow, this is great,” and then when I went back the second time, it’s like, okay, let’s move up that hierarchy and see what’s going on, and this was the thing that stuck in my head is, is there too much dense information before we get to the, that action?

So I don’t know. Um, do you feel like this is the, the style or the speed that it’s going to be? Because there are different speeds and styles, you know, of, of [00:10:00] writing, and I think particularly the type of book you’re writing, like the Gothic, um, you know, thriller could, could be a slower read, right? It could be a- Mm-hmm

a slower pace. So what i- what is your feeling about that?

Andrew: Um, I don’t have, like, a succinct- feeling on that yet. I’ve been reading a lot of different books. I’ve been reading some other vampire fiction, um, to get, to get a better sense of the genre, and some do it one way, and some do it a different way. And so I know, like when I, when I, when I exported this chapter, um, into, into, into a Google Doc, I was like, “Oh, wow, this is...”

It just felt like, wow, this is way too long. I was like, “Is this too much for a single chapter?” And so I was thinking about, what can I reasonably expect to put into a single chapter? What do, what do [00:11:00] modern au- audiences want in, in, in, in kind of the breakdown of the chapters? You know, as you say, there’s the, there’s, the, the, the, this, this chapter is kind of in two parts.

There’s the part in the funeral, um, and then there’s what happens after the funeral in the alley. And like I could see breaking those into two separate, two separate chapters, as it were, but as I was writing it, I’m, I, I have the blueprint in the back of my mind, and there’s all of this, there’s all of this exposition I need to set up r- at the beginning.

And some of that I might be able to move to chapter one, which I’m working on right now, so that there’s less lifting that this chapter needs to do. But yeah, when I exported it and looked at it, I was like, “Holy cow.” I like, I think, I think it was 5,000 words or something like that. It was, it was, it was a, it was 10 pages, um, of,

of text like- Well, it’s 10 single-spaced pages.

I just looked up- Single-spaced

Andrew: pages. I’m so sorry about that

No, no. I just looked up the word count, and it is 5,000 [00:12:00] words. Yeah. So this is really the most fascinating question for everyone. What is a chapter, right? Like what is a scene? Yeah. What is a chapter? Mm-hmm. What propels a, a story forward, a narrative forward?

Your question, what does the modern reader want? Another question- Mm-hmm ... do I wanna give the modern reader what they want? Right. Or do I want- Right ... this story to be, do I wanna invite them into something they’re not sure that they do want? You know.

Andrew: Right.

You read any Victorian literature, you know, it’s slow.

It’s ha- Mm-hmm ... it’s not like the books that are written today. So- Mm-hmm ... you know, do you want to say, “I don’t care what you want, modern reader, I’m, this is what my story needs to be”? Like there’s so- Right ... many questions tied up around that, and I wish that I could tell you what a chapter is, or like a chapter should [00:13:00] only be X number of words-

or pages, or, and it, there’s just no answer. You know, you see books that succeed at all different-

Jennie: Mm-hmm ...

um, concepts of that, conceptions of that. And-

Jennie: Right ...

it, I think being conscious of it is, is the point. Um, and- The blueprint can help in the following way. The power of the blueprint is the connection between chapters.

Mm-hmm. So that the, because of that engine, the point of each scene that we, we force you to put down so that it’s not just plot, plot, plot, plot, plot. Right. This happens, this happens, this other cool thing happens, oh, now we gotta get her over here. Now she’s gotta go to the alley. It’s, the, what the blueprint forces us to think about is what happens in one chapter needs to drive to the next one.

Mm-hmm. It needs to [00:14:00] connect in a profoundly intentional way to set up the next thing that happens. And so this thought process that you’re in of what is the purpose of chapter one- Mm-hmm ... which is going to be, now I’m remembering, there’s, somebody’s killing people here in London. Um, and, and the m- mood of the story and the world that we’re in, and then chapter two is we meet Brianna.

But what is the point, the propulsive point, not the plot point? So that’s what we gotta get in, so that if you move some of this to the, the first chapter it, it’s still gotta do its job. Does that make sense?

Andrew: Yeah. No, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, I think, I think the p- the p- what is the point of this, of, of th- of [00:15:00] this chapter two?

I- in a some, in some way we’re meeting, we’re meeting our villain, and we’re meeting our protagonist, and kind of that’s, that’s the point to the listener, but, or to the reader, but what is the point to the story? Um- That’s right ... to i- yeah.

To identify that-

Andrew: That’s right ... yeah, to identify that Van Helsing is dead, to, to m- make, to, to, like, th- ‘cause that is the starting off point.

It is because he died that everything else in this book happens. And so I think that, so that, that’s something that, th- that’s, that’s the, that’s the, that’s the nut of, of, of, of this chapter, in addition

to- But do you see that that’s- ...

Jennie: establishing

the characters ... I’m sorry, I’m, I’m talking over you ‘cause I’m so excited.

No, that’s all right. Do you see , do you see that that’s all plot?

Andrew: Yeah. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. The reader needs to know this guy’s died. Yeah. The reader needs to meet our protagonist, the r- reader. A- and it’s like, okay What, what’s the point though? So I’m, I’m going back to the [00:16:00] blueprint right now to- Mm-hmm ... to see what, what was said.

Um, and I’m so feeling validated because the blueprint does have this as chapter one, so I’m feeling like maybe I’m not insane to have thought- No ... that it was.

Andrew: No, that was... I called an audible. I called an audible on this

one. Good. I’m so glad. I mean, at my age, I have to be worried about like, is this, is it, is this it?

Am I really losing it? Um, okay. So that makes me feel better. So what you have is, um- Is the point of the funeral chapter... Well

No, this is different. It’s different. We’ve changed it up, so, um, so it’s something new This chapter. So this is, [00:17:00] um, I’m gonna pivot for a second and talk about something else.

Andrew: Sure.

The blueprint is a map that you make basically of your mind, of what you, you know, trying to get the story out of your head and onto the page so that you can see it and manipulate it and, and write to it.

And the, when you start writing, it, it’s not a rigid paint-by-numbers situation. It’s, you know, it’s g- your, your idea is gonna morph and change. Your understanding of your story and your protagonist and the plot and everything is gonna morph and change. So it becomes a guide and a, a kind of North Star. And what I would suggest is that you update the blueprint as you write, so that it is containing the, your current thinking.

It becomes a, we call it, um, an as-is outline. Mm-hmm. So it starts out the inside outline. This is what I’m gonna write. [00:18:00] Then you start writing and you change it, and as-is outline is partly what you have written, so right now, you know, a few chapters, and partly what you believe you’re going to write. And then as you continue to write it, the outline changes to reflect what you’ve actually done, so that it, it’s a living, breathing, um, reflection of what you’re making.

Does that make sense?

Andrew: Yeah. No, that absolutely makes sense. And I haven’t, I haven’t revisited the blueprint since, since, uh, since writing this chapter, and I, and that would, that would help me f- find some focus for what this chapter, what the point of this chapter is, uh, so that I can decide how long it needs to be.

Right? And then that question- Right ... of what- Right, there’s a question of length, but there’s also the question of, um, what is it, what is it doing [00:19:00] here? So, you know, you have all those plot answers to that question, but you really wanna be thinking about that, that reader experience and-

Andrew: Mm-hmm ...

what that reaction that I had immediately of I was worried about Abrianna, I care, I’m caring about her.

I don’t want her to make this bad decision where she’s gonna- Mm-hmm ... get hurt. Right. And even though, I mean, that’s what’s so funny about reading, it’s like she’s the protagonist and so she’s gonna be fine. But, but, you know, you want your reader to, to feel that, to feel that- Mm-hmm ... emotion, to be in that, in her skin in that way, and to understand that something’s at stake.

And- Right ... um, a- and to care about those stakes and about this person. So i- in [00:20:00] terms of what is the chapter doing here, that’s how I would think about it. It’s like in this chapter, I want the reader to feel- I mean, I’m just gonna riff here, right? Like, Aubrianna has people around her who are watching her.

That’s a real sense that I got from both the vampires in the church, but also, um, this m- man she calls her uncle, who is not her uncle, but, but he, um, is a very close family friend, um, and, and a doctor, and she looks up to him, and he’s, he’s looking out for her at, i- in this situation, and they’re, they’re having a kind of adult conversation, you know, and she’s a young woman in this society where young women are not gonna typically be treated that way.

So like we get a sense of [00:21:00] her, um, uh, being... People care, care about her. There’s something about her that is attracting people. Is that fair to say?

Andrew: Yeah. I think, I think that’s, that’s a really astute way of putting it. People are watching her. Yeah, I, I don’t know that I could have expressed it that way, but I think that really kind of puts...

You really kind of put your finger on it there. There are all of these people watching her, her uncle, the vampires, the executor, and like all of these people are, are keeping an eye out for Aubrianna in the first part of the scene, in the first part of the chapter, and the second part of the chapter is very different.

And so maybe that, maybe that is an indication that I’ve crammed two chapters into one here.

Jennie: Um-

Ooh, that’s interesting ‘cause she- Yeah ... leaves all the people who are watching her.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

And she becomes actually the watcher in that part of the - [00:22:00]

Andrew: Yeah ...

chapter. Uh, and I forgot about the executor. I wanted to say that you did something, I thought it was so well done, where the executor of Van Helsing’s estate approaches her at the funeral and says, “I need to talk to you.”

And, um, and then Seward, who’s this uncle figure, um, is chasing the executor like, “Wait, I wanna talk to you.” Like, there’s such a discrepancy in the way the executor is, is treating these two characters, and you never say it. You never tell the reader what to think, but it, it was so, um, deftly done that I was like, that...

So that in some ways to me feels like the point. When I said people are watching her, like why does the executor of Van Helsing’s estate wanna talk to [00:23:00] her? And, and- She, who is she and why, why is that vampire watching her? And why is Seward wanting like what, wanting what she has, like the executor’s- Mm-hmm

attention, and there’s this whole sense of like, who is she? And w- and why do people care so much about her? To me, that’s the point that is sitting with the reader, is I wanna, I wanna know. And-

Andrew: Right ...

some of the immediate things I wanna know she also wants to know, which is why is this vampire watching me?

Andrew: Right. Yeah.

Or, or, or, you know, feeling, why am I feeling this eyes on the back of my head sort of thing, and we’ll talk about that in a minute w- that when she goes after that, that vampire. But so I wanna know about the vampire, I wanna know about what’s happening with the executor, I wanna know what’s going on here with [00:24:00] Stewart, like Seward.

Um, you know, there’s a lot that I want to know about, about her, and to me, that’s the point of this chapter for, for the reader, is making us care about her. Um, not just from a physical safety point of view, which you, you do in that alley scene, but from a, I’m worried about her on a lot of levels, right?

Andrew: Right. Um-

Um-

Andrew: Yeah, no, I’m try- I’m making, I’m making some notes here. Um, I think, I think, yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m, I, I’m excited that, that you, that you read the executor scene the way, the way you intended. I really was trying to set up that dichotomy of, of she was somehow a little bit more important to this gentleman than, than Seward was, and Seward’s trying to like jump up and down and catch his attention and...

But maybe, maybe that’s, that’s a way, that’s a way to, to shed some of the [00:25:00] weight of this chapter, is to focus in on, on the people who are watching, who are looking at, who are focusing on Aubrianna, and kind of, kind of focus the listener’s attention, uh, the, the dr- the, the reader’s attention in the same, in the same way.

Yeah.

Well, and that brings me to the, the second thing that I wanted to talk about, which is there is a little bit of a sen- I wanted a little bit more to be in her head. Mm-hmm. So in, in, in a few places. With the executor I, I don’t know. I, I mean, I don’t want you to make it too heavy-handed ‘cause it’s so good as it is, but, you know, a little bit more of a, of a like-

Jennie: Mm-hmm

what? Why? Mm-hmm. You know, wh- why do you wanna ta- you know, or f- maybe- Right ... even just looking to Seward like w- I don’t know, a more confusion. She sort of accepts it- Mm-hmm. [00:26:00] Mm-hmm ... um, a little too easily. And then- Gotcha ... when she makes the decision to follow the vampire, um, it’s quite risky, and she does that without a lot of thought.

And I- Yeah ... and I would like a little bit more of a sense of her intention or deliberateness around that, ‘cause she’s not just like, “La, la, la, la, la, this is interesting, I’m gonna go.” She’s, she’s like, “I must, I must find out. I must follow this per- I, I cannot not do it.” So a little bit more of, um, her de- internal debate, um, or her sense of, of being risky and being okay- Mm

with that, ‘cause that’s gonna happen in the book a lot.

Jennie: Yeah.

She’s, she does things that are, that are risky. And- Right ... so setting up her internal sense of herself, [00:27:00] does she feel... There’s so many things she could feel about that. Like, is she clueless, or is she aware and doesn’t, doesn’t mind the risk, or is she seeking risk?

Like, there’s s- s- we need to know her- Mm-hmm ... relationship to risk, I guess.

Jennie: Right. Yeah.

Andrew: I like those questions, I like those questions. I think, I think what I was trying to get at a little bit, and, and, and I don’t think I did a very good job with this, was vampires have the ability to enthrall humans, and so to kind of- Oh

to kind of influence them, and I don’t think, I don’t think I, I, I did that very well. But, like, this is Abrianna’s mother, and so Abrianna’s mother wouldn’t necessarily want to assert that power over her. So it might be, it might be a little, a, might be a softer touch, um, more of a beckoning than a compelling.

But I think you’re right, we need to [00:28:00] hear a little bit more of Abrianna’s thought process about why she decides to follow, to follow the vampire down the street and into, into the alleyway.

Oh, that’s so- And so I think go- ... interesting. So it’s not in the chapter, would not be in the chapter, but the vampire who is her mother- is fighting her vampire instincts around her daughter in a way.

Is that right? I

Andrew: think so, yeah, yeah.

That’s really cool. Or, or,

Andrew: or pulling her punches, couching her powers a little bit, um, because it, because it is her daughter.

That’s really cool, and- Yeah ... there’s some really fantastic writing around, um, Seward explaining to Aubrianna, uh, you know, because it’s like who are those s- those creatures and, and he- Right

his explanation, it does a huge job of letting the reader know [00:29:00] there’s vampires in this world, they’re among us, they’re accepted sort of. Mm-hmm. Like they’re- Right ... allowed to come into the church, which is surprising. They walk around, they- they’re wearing particular kinds of clothing. Everybody knows who they are, but there’s this real sense that they’re other, and you do that just beautifully in a way that is not heavy-handed and it’s, it really feels the way that our current society others various groups of people, and you just do that really beautifully through- Thank you

Seward’s explanation of them and pointing out to o- So my understanding from this scene is that she’s never actually been this close to vampires. Is that fair to say?

Andrew: I think so. As, as I’m, as I’m conceiving this story at the moment, no, it’s, it’s always been more academic, [00:30:00] uh, her understanding of, of vampires.

However limited it might be, she’s n- she’s never, she’s never had a personal encounter with one.

Right, so that’s, that, and we, going back to the point of the scene- Yeah ... if that’s true- Yeah. Yeah ... she’s, she’s never had a personal encounter with a vampire, she’s at this funeral o- of somebody who was involved with vampires, everyone’s got their eye on her, the executor, like that’s a lot for this- Yeah

protagonist. It’s, and it’s exciting for the story and it, like what a place to put us as a reader, and how she reacts is surprising. She- Mm-hmm ... she follows the vampi- and, and makes sense for a curious, smart young woman who’s not allowed to, to think for herself or act for herself, and she, here’s a chance for her to do so.

Like there’s a lot of reasons why that makes sense, but, but I would hit that [00:31:00] harder, maybe have her be more curious or pushing Seward more. He kind of offers her the information- You know, like here they are, this is what they’re about. Mm-hmm. Maybe she’s a little bit more pulling it from her, I mean him.

Maybe it’s- She could

Andrew: be, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I don’t know, you can play around with that, but-

Andrew: She, she, she could, she could be, yeah, uh, a little more proactive asking questions about, about them. Yeah, and I’m, I’m trying to like, I’m trying to like manage how much exposition at the same time do we want to like, do we wanna like, to, as, as you said, to kind of avoid the info dumps.

And so I’m trying to figure out what other elements about vampires do we learn in subsequent chapters and, and, and that sort of thing. But, but yeah, I think, I think, you know, we- There’s certainly room for her to ask a question or two ... there’s certainly room for her to ask a question or two, yeah.

So what you’re talking about is also [00:32:00] another really great use of the blueprint, which is- Yeah

you could track on the blueprint, you could put a bullet point under your scenes, you could make it a special color.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

A vampire color. And, and it could just track what do we learn about vampires?

Andrew: Yeah.

Because one of the things, I just read, um, Yesteryear, which everybody’s reading. Have you read it, everybody but you?

I have not

Andrew: read it,

no. I, I feel like I’m the last person to read it, so I’m pleased to encounter- ... somebody else who hasn’t. Um, I mean, there’s so many things to say, and people have said so many things about it, but, um, one of the things I enjoyed about it was there- The respect for the mystery at the center of the story- Mm-hmm

because there’s this real [00:33:00] question of what is happening here, and where are we? You know, what is going on? And the author lets questions lie for a while, rather than spoon-feeding them or answering them. There’s clues, you know, you can guess, but there, there is that feeling of, um, I don’t know, and I have to trust the author to take me down this path.

I don’t... I, I’m not in charge here. And with the vampire, the revealing of... Obviously, there’s the revealing of Seward is not who we think he is.

Andrew: Right.

Um, the, the vampire who’s the mother, we don’t know that she’s the mother for quite a long time. Right. So there, you’re, you’re withholding these kinds of information, but I think you do wanna think about [00:34:00] how much vampire-y stuff does the reader have to know right now?

Andrew: Right.

And the, that question o- of what does the reader need to know is what makes really propulsive narrative. If it’s- Right ... only what we need to know right now, and could there be a place for some of this information, that’s why you could track it. Like, oh- Yeah ... I could put this here. We don’t need to know this, you know.

Here’s a scene where we actually really need to know this about... So, like, what you just shared with me- Vampires have some control over humans, or I don’t, it wasn’t the word you used. Uh, something. Uh- Enthrall.

Andrew: They can en- they can

en- they can enthrall humans a bit, yeah. Enthrall, that’s the word. I feel like that’s important to know now, because that’s- Yeah

what this vampire- Mm-hmm ... is doing.

Andrew: Mm-hmm.

But also you the author knows [00:35:00] this vampire’s also trying not to do it. Both things- Yeah ... are true.

Jennie: Right.

And, and that’s happening to our protagonist. I feel like that is critically important to understand. Um, I also feel like because- Yeah ... we’re in a church, it’s very, it’s very cool that you have your vampires in, in a church.

Because everything we know about, or we think about vampires, you know, that sort of cliche vampire-y thing. It’s like they, they can’t be there, they shouldn’t be there. What’s going on? Like, that’s really important to know because you’re setting up the culture of your world and story.

Andrew: Right, yeah. Yeah.

Um, and I think some of the details about, I loved the details about the clothing, um, because there’s this jacket that plays a role in the scene.

Mm. That’s important to know, right? So I would go through and really think, [00:36:00] well, first of all, what’s really happening in this scene? Not, not plot-wise, but point-wise. Right, yeah. Go back to the blueprint, pin it down so you know- Mm-hmm ... and you can write toward that. And then what do we have to know about everything, the vampires?

Andrew: Yeah, yeah.

You do it really beautifully with the executor. We don’t know what he’s talking about. Right. We don’t know, is this like, uh, does this person who died have a lot of money? Are they... Like, we don’t know any of that. It’s just- Mm-hmm ... we, we know just enough to, that, that we need. Same with Seward, we don’t need to know all the things about the family- Right

and the fallout. Maybe just a little bit For sure the fallout, ‘cause why is the dad not there? But-

Andrew: Yeah, yeah ...

you know, we, we... you do that really well with Seward, like, oh, this is a family [00:37:00] friend, really close family friend. He understands a lot about why the dad is not there. He’s looking out for her. Like, we need all that.

Um, so that’s how I would think, and then-

Andrew: Okay ...

you can see does any of that need to be in the first chapter with the, um- Right ... the murder or not. Mm-hmm. Um, and you can start tracking where it goes.

Andrew: Right. Using, using the, using the blueprint to help me kind of track those breadcrumbs as it were. I can see that being really useful, and I think some of it, some of it I can move over to, you know, the non-Abrianna related, uh, expositional points.

I think I, I might be able to sh- I should be able to shift over to the earlier chapter, but because we don’t meet Abrianna in chapter one, a lot of it, uh, a lot of it will probably still have to stay in this chapter two. But yeah, I like- [00:38:00] I like that, I like that question that you have posed. Um-

Good,

Andrew: good

and I can, I can grapple with that. Yeah.

W- well, there’s two things I wanna point out for our listeners. One is the blueprint is for you. So it seems like it’s, you know, there’s a point in the writing of a novel when you need a synopsis for the external world, for an agent, uh, you know ... Well, that’s really it, for an agent.

Um- ... which is an external-facing document. The blueprint is for you, to guide you so that you know, what am I doing here? Mm. Where am I headed? Mm. Is this w- how is this story propelling forward? What is the point of this scene? W- does it belong here? Do I need it? It is, it’s a measuring stick. So at this point, the more you can put on it, the better.

So the, you can now [00:39:00] start tracking sewer things, murder things, vampire things, um, you know, just depending on the way your brain works. Um, anything you wanna track on there. You could have sub- sub-bullets. I once worked with, um, a writer who had four different colored sub-bullets under each scene tracking.

Whoa. There was some POV back-and-forthing she was tracking. Oh, okay. And there was a, um, there was actually a piece of music that was really central to this story that had its own kind of arc of change. She was tracking w- what do we know about this piece of music? You know, she, it was really cool, and it just every- Oh, good

every scene had these four things. And then, and then again, the as-is outline is, is, um, you could almost imagine a, a bar scrolling down [00:40:00] the blueprint as you write. Like, what’s above- Right ... the bar is what’s on the page-

Andrew: Mm-hmm ...

and, and what’s below is still theoretical, right?

Right.

Andrew: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then the second thing I wanted to say for our listeners is to hear, we started off this whole conversation- By my saying how amazing this, this chapter draft was, and how much I loved it and how great it was, and look how much there still is to talk about and do, right? Yeah. It’s not like there’s a, you know, again, this hierarchy of editorial concerns.

It’s not like there’s major things Andrew has to fix or work on, or like you need to start in a different place, or y- you missed ... It, like it was so much is good and so much is there, and yet, you know, here we are trying to make it- Still so, still so much

Andrew: to do. Yeah.

Right? Which is- Yeah ... the whole work of writing, and I [00:41:00] hope, I hope it feels fun to you.

Andrew: It absolutely still does. It absolutely still does. I was, I was on vacation, uh, last week and, and I brought my laptop thinking I’d, I’d, I’d get some writing done, and I didn’t get as much done as I wanted to. So I’m feeling a little bit of, a little bit of distance, and it feels like too much distance from, uh, from, from my writing and I’m, and, and I’m excited to be getting back into it again this week.

But no, I’m very, still very excited about this. Yeah.

Yay. Well, what I wanted to suggest for our next, um, episode is when you have 50 pages- ... to send those my way. Um, and I will- Wow ... and also the blueprint so I cannot make the same mistake about what I’m reading. Sure. That was so bad on me. But, um, yeah, 50 pages.

You know, there’s no deadline. Whenever you get that, and- Sure ... um, I mean, unless you want a deadline, I could give you one.

Andrew: Give me a deadline. I respond well-

Ooh.

Andrew: Okay ... to

deadlines. All right. We’re [00:42:00] talking here, um, at the end of June. Mm-hmm. Our listeners won’t be hearing this for some time, but that’s okay.

I’m thinking you write pretty fast, right?

Andrew: When, when the spirit moves, yes, I think so.

Okay. So, um, I’m thinking- Oh, and by the way, this 10 pages is actually, is actually probably really 20 ‘cause it’s single-spaced

Andrew: Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Gotcha.

So you already have- So

Andrew: I’m

Jennie: already

halfway there ... almost half of it.

Almost halfway. Yeah, yeah. So I’m thinking- Okay ... it’s summer. Uh, how about we say beginning of September, two months.

Andrew: I was gonna say beginning of August. I could, I could... I think I could, I

could do it earlier. Oh, look at you. All right, let’s do it. Four weeks. All right. Boom. Let’s do it. Go. Let’s do it. Okay.

All

Jennie: right.

Done. I was being soft on you. Forget that. Okay, cool. I can do it. I can do it. So we’re gonna share this chapter with [00:43:00] our paid subscribers, and we’re gonna come back when Andrew has 50 pages and, and see what he does and where it goes and, um, and then we’ll see what happens from there.

Andrew: Cool.

Sounds good. Um, this is, this is... This is really exciting. I’m excited to dig back into this, into this chapter about, and, and kind of parse out what we, what we’ve just discussed and s- and see how it changes things and see how it changes things.

I’m thrilled. It’s just been thrilling to watch your progress.

And for our listeners, until next time, stop playing small and write like it matters.

Jennie: The #amwriting podcast is produced by Andrew Perilla. Our intro music, aptly titled Unemployed Monday, was written and played by Max Cohen. Andrew and Max were paid for their time and their creative output because everyone deserves to be paid for their [00:44:00] work